TomG
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8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ? ** BUG FOUND AND FIXED **
See Post #24 for FIX System - Win 7 X64 - 8.5.1 X64 - clean 8.5.1 install from "full version dvd" not an upgrade from 8.x.x - i7 DAW - Layla 3G ASIO 8.2 Driver - 24 / 44.1 - 32 Samples Latency - All software and hardware drivers are native X64 Problem - Open a New Track - Insert SD3 - as a simple instrument or traditional midi/audio grouping - Load a Kit - Load a .mid Pattern - Preview it - Drag the .MID clip to the Track - so far plays back OK BUT - I then re-open SD3 and if I click on the " drumkit " there is no sound - I open the Mixer and the sliders do work but again, the individual " kit " pictures produce no sound - I try to load a new .MID but it wont " audition " or " play " unless I drag the new .MID to the Track - this makes trying / auditioning sounds and .MID patterns very slow and frustrating
Is this a known issue / problem / bug ?
Is the a known " fix " ?
Thanks,
Tom
post edited by TomG - 2009/10/26 08:34:08
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CJaysMusic
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/24 08:04:30
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.MID patterns very slow and frustrating
There is no known bug for not palying back Your 32samples is way too low most likely. Raise it to 64, then 128, then 256 ofr even 512 You can also go into options/globla midi data and tweak the 2 settings. 96 and 600 is a good start for them. But 1st raise your 32samples to what i said above Cj Cj
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musec07
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/24 12:36:20
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Last night my version of SONAR 8.5.1 crashed EVERY time I opened the mixer to assign channels.
It reported opcode 15 failure and I received an autohost.exe failure.
This is a first following extensive and damaging crash incidents using MEDIA BROWSER...
this is also a problem no one has
apparently I am going to be fairly easy to fix if someobody knows how to use remote access...
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TomG
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/24 19:51:30
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Hi CJ
Hmmmmm..... I did try at 64 samples also and still no go.
I'll try 128 / 256 but I really want to stick with 32 samples because I do a lot of live-input monitoring and its never been a problem with any other synth / vst even in massively loaded projects.
Thanks,
Tom
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CJaysMusic
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/24 20:32:14
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Hmmmmm..... I did try at 64 samples also and still no go. Therer is little differene between ASIO buffe of 32 and 64. What about the global midi settings i asked about??? what are they??? Cj
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CJaysMusic
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/24 20:34:04
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Musec, your crashing too much. Stop it!!!!
Seriously, everly little thing you do in soanr leads to a crash. Do a Memtest and a hard drive test and so a registry cleaning and fixing
Cj
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Crg
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/24 21:10:40
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TomG
System
- Win 7 X64
- 8.5.1 X64
- i7 DAW
- Layla 3G ASIO 8.2 Driver
- 24 / 44.1
- 32 Samples Latency
- All software and hardware drivers are native X64
Problem
- Open a New Track
- Insert SD3 - as a simple instrument or traditional midi/audio grouping
- Load a Kit
- Load a .mid Pattern
- Preview it
- Drag the .MID clip to the Track
- so far plays back OK BUT
- I then re-open SD3 and if I click on the " drumkit " there is no sound
- I open the Mixer and the sliders do work but again, the individual " kit " pictures produce no sound
- I try to load a new .MID but it wont " audition " or " play " unless I drag the new .MID to the Track
- this makes trying / auditioning sounds and .MID patterns very slow and frustrating
Is this a known issue / problem / bug ?
Is the a known " fix " ?
Thanks,
Tom
Did you try loading a new kit when you reopened SD3? I haven't tried what you're referring to but SD3 worked great for me. Percussion pad hooked right up. mouse triggered everything, loops worked. Many soft synths don't retain the preset you had in them after closing and reopening.
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TomG
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/25 00:20:05
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Hi CJ and Craig !
CJ - 128 samples or higher is fine - 64 or 32 causes the "bug".
Craig - tried your "re-loading" suggestion - no go - " bug" still there.
At 64 or 32 samples, once you re-open SD3 the Audio Engine refuses to engage - hence the problem - however it plays back fine as 32 or 64 samples.
Any other thoughts ?
CJ, I tried a stack of differnt MIDI settings in both Global and Project but to no avail - any in particular you were thinking of ?
The fact that it plays back fine at 32 or 64 samples but the Audio Engine wont re-engage when you stop and re-open SD3 tells me this is a "bug"
As well as trying to fix this in this thread, I think I'll post this in the 8.5.2 / 8.5.1 bug fix threads.
Tom
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CJaysMusic
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/25 00:59:24
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- 64 or 32 causes the "bug".
At 64 or 32 samples, once you re-open SD3 the Audio Engine refuses to engage - hence the problem
Its not a bug. Yuor pc and/or soudn card cannot handle that low of a buffer. Thats just life. Its not a bug. I think I'll post this in the 8.5.2 / 8.5.1 bug fix threads Its not a bug. Someone help me out here!!!!!!!!! Its due to your pc and sound card's drivers. 32 and 64 is too low for your pc. Its not a bug Cj
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CJaysMusic
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/25 01:02:05
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My pc can handle playing Session drummer 3 at 64buffers. So its not a bug. Just becasue your pc cannot play back at 32 or 64 samples means its your pc's limitation. Not Sonar - 64 or 32 causes the "bug".
At 64 or 32 samples, once you re-open SD3 the Audio Engine refuses to engage - hence the problem
This is why qwe raise the buffers to find your pc's sweet spot. The lower the buffer, the more strian on your CPU. This is why iot plays at 128 Its not a bug. Cj
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TomG
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/25 01:11:44
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Hi CJ Its not my PC - its a 4.2 gig 8-core Intel DAW with 6gig of ram - fully s.o.t.a and fully optimized and only running x64 hard/software - its as solid as brick - doesnt glitch even at >%80 constant loads - I run very large project always at 32 samples with mountains of softsynths and efx all live input monitored and am constantly opening, editing, tweakingh them during playback - I've never seen this issue with any othert synth be it Sonar specific or "third party".
FWIW this " bug " / " issue " happens with just 1 audio track and once instance of SD3 - on playback [ at 32 or 64 samples ] the CPU meter barely registers anything above %1. Its possible it could be a driver issue but (i) Echo's drivers are about as good and stable as they come snd (ii) why doesnt this "bug" or "issue" arise or occur with any other of the numerous soft-synths of VST efx I am using - it only occurs with SD3 as I have described.. Maybe its a Win 7 specific issue CW did not test / expect ? Thanks, Tom
post edited by TomG - 2009/10/25 01:13:36
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CJaysMusic
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/25 01:26:27
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Ive been recoridng this project with SD3 and my ASIO buffer has been at 64 for 2 weeks as of right now. Ive been reocirdng at least 3 hours a day for the past 2 weeks with SD3 playing as i recird. Thats 42 hours with no audio engine shutting off with SD3 playing to keep me in time.
Maybe you need to tweak your global midi buffers in options/global/midi. Try 96 and 700 for the 2 settings
Cj
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TomG
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/25 01:40:44
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Hi CJ
Really apprecite you help / advice.
Tried your 96 / 700 suggestion as well as numerous other combinations but all to no avail.
At 64 or 32 samples no matter what I try, once I stop a project with SD3 in it and re-open SD3 - to edit or load new sounds or do anything - the Audio Engine will not engage / re-engage. If I then close SD3 and hit Play again to play the project with SD3 in it, the Audio Engine does engage and play back as normal.
Tom
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CJaysMusic
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/25 01:45:29
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Wait,, do you have share drivers with other programs enabled?? in options/audio/advanced
Cj
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CJaysMusic
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/25 01:47:55
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Mully
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/25 02:05:04
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Sorry to digress fellas... but is the failure of soft synths to retain it's preset a bug (as mentioned by Crg above)? I'm seeing this now with my first serious crack at SD3 and it's a bit annoying.... keen to see if I am missing something obvious though being Mr non-Midi.
ASUS H270, i7-7700, JLM BA & 1290, LA2A Opto4, loads of guff.
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TomG
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/25 02:24:46
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Hi CJ
No - share drivers with other programs not checked / off.
Mully - is the failure of soft synths to retain it's preset a bug - if its happening [ in SD3 or any other softsynth ] yes it *probably* is - maybe start another thread or post in one of the 2 " fixes " threads.
Tom
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CJaysMusic
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/25 02:28:11
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Check it. Its a long shot but try it. and set your ASIO buffer at 64 and set your Recording and playback I/O buffers at 512
Cj
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TomG
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/25 05:10:48
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Hi CJ
Yep - double checked - no go.
Tried differnent I/O buffers and 64 samples etc.... - all no go.
This really does look like a " deep " / " core code " issue.
I'm pretty good at just about sorting and doing anything with Sonar - but this is a brick wall - I cant think of anything to [re] try that I havent already tried.
I really hope someone from CW see's this and can suggest a way forward - or list it for " fixing " - as otherwise it makes using SD3 at sub-128 sample latency pointless / a no-go zone.
Tom
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Muziekschuur at home
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/25 06:48:38
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Just to make sure.... Does it play at 128 samples? With two 4 core processors (not i7 type) there is internal latency between cores..... But.... You said it works with other style stuff without issue.... Maybe there is something in the Code of SD3 (sessiondrummer 3).
post edited by Muziekschuur at home - 2009/10/25 06:50:54
Cakewalk Sonar Platinum Windows 7 32bit & 64bit (dualboot) Gigabyte mobo Intel dual quad 9650 & 4GB Ram RME DIGI9636 & Tascam DM24. M-audio Rbus & SI-24 Alesis Pro active 5.1 & Radford 90 transmissionline monitors. Roland RD-150 piano Edirol UM-880 & alesis fireport. Remote recording Alesis HD-24 & Phonic MRS 1-20. P.A. D&R Dayner 29-8-2 & behringer MX8000 (& racks) Rackpc Sonar Platinum with win10 AMD X6 1055T, 16GB Ram Dell inspiron 17R 6gb ram W10 two SSD's Sonar Plat.
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TomG
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/25 07:05:10
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Hi Muziekschuur at home
Yep - it plays fine at 128 samples and you can stop / open / re-open SD3 and everything is fine - all sounds are there all of the time. Drop to 64 or 32 samples and you get the " bug ".
Also, every other synth - CW or non-CW is fine at 32 [ or 64 ] samples so I am [ reasonalby ] confident it is a " coding " issue with SD3.
Tom
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Muziekschuur at home
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/25 07:52:33
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You could try with SD2? If you have acces to that version offcourse (Sonar 7&8?)
Cakewalk Sonar Platinum Windows 7 32bit & 64bit (dualboot) Gigabyte mobo Intel dual quad 9650 & 4GB Ram RME DIGI9636 & Tascam DM24. M-audio Rbus & SI-24 Alesis Pro active 5.1 & Radford 90 transmissionline monitors. Roland RD-150 piano Edirol UM-880 & alesis fireport. Remote recording Alesis HD-24 & Phonic MRS 1-20. P.A. D&R Dayner 29-8-2 & behringer MX8000 (& racks) Rackpc Sonar Platinum with win10 AMD X6 1055T, 16GB Ram Dell inspiron 17R 6gb ram W10 two SSD's Sonar Plat.
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Crg
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = is this a know bug / issue ?
2009/10/25 08:55:20
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Yep - it plays fine at 128 samples and you can stop / open / re-open SD3 and everything is fine - all sounds are there all of the time. Drop to 64 or 32 samples and you get the " bug ". Also, every other synth - CW or non-CW is fine at 32 [ or 64 ] samples so I am [ reasonalby ] confident it is a " coding " issue with SD3. Tom I think you have your answer there Tom. 128 should be fine. I use 256 all the time and have no problems. What is your latency at 128?
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TomG
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = ** BUG FOUND AND FIXED ** !!
2009/10/26 08:24:57
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Its a BUG and I* found a FIX !!! Thanks to Muziekschuur at home* I installed SD2 [ only ] into 8.5.1 from my 8 Sonar 8 DVD as a long shot. Guess what - SD2 works perfectly at 32 samples in 8.5.1 no matter what you do and how you do it. Then as I long shot I opened a pre-exisiting SD3 project in my 8.5.1 and to my amazement, it too is now working perfectly at 32 samples no matter what you do and how you do it. I replicated both scenarios two seperate times - as I have my non-SD2 8.5.1 disc imaged and it re-formats and re-installs in less than 7 minutes - so I re-loaded it so I was back to 8.5.1 with just SD3 and again [ each time ] the 32 sample "bug" was there. I [ again ] re-loaded just SD2 from the Sonar 8 DVD into my 8.5.1 install and was now running SD2 and SD3 in 8.5.1 and ...bingo....again, both the SD2 and SD3 projects ran perfectly in 8.5.1 at 32 samples no matter what you do and how you do it.
My 8.5.1 installation is fully clean from the 8.5.1 full-version DVD - it is not from a migration / upgrade from 8.3.1 - Sonar 8.3.1 has never been installed on this rig - as such, there can only be one answer.
When you upgrade / migrate from Sonar 8 to 8.5, it must install SD3 by carrying over or using some SD2 files or settings whereas if you install 8.5.1 clean from the full [ non-upgrade ] version, and SD2 is not already present on your system, SD3 ends up missing something that makes it work at 32 [ or 64 ] samples. Like I said the above is totally repeatable - and I did repeat it twice as I couldnt beleive it. So if you are doing a full clean install of 8.5.1 [ not upgrading / migrating from 8.3.1 and 8.3.1 is not already on your DAW ] just install SD2 only from your 8.x.x DVD into your 8.5.1 install and your SD3 in 8.5.1 will now work perfectly at 32 and 64 samples. Big thanks to Muziekschuur at home for the " install SD2 idea " as I would never have thought of trying this option. Tom
post edited by TomG - 2009/10/26 08:29:59
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Phoenix
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = ** BUG FOUND AND FIXED ** !!
2009/10/26 12:18:22
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Thanks, Tom! I am going to do just that in a few weeks. I am bookmarking this post.
And thanks Muziekschuur at home too.
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Crg
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = ** BUG FOUND AND FIXED ** !!
2009/10/26 18:50:28
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Hmm, very interesting, but I'm not so sure. I hope you made a bug report on the issue. I'd like to see if Cakewalk can reproduce it.
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Freddie H
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Re:8.5.1 + SD3 = ** BUG FOUND AND FIXED ** !!
2009/10/26 19:26:13
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Crg
Hmm, very interesting, but I'm not so sure. I hope you made a bug report on the issue. I'd like to see if Cakewalk can reproduce it.
+1 8.5.1 installation fully clean from the 8.5.1 full-version DVD - not from a migration / upgrade from 8.3.1 make bugs disappear. Its very interesting!  I wonder if more bugs can disappear? I have the DVD also but use the Internet update version 8.5.1 right now. Regards Freddie
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