OMG, 8.5.3 Broke Set Measure/Beat At Now!

The one feature I could count on through all the buggy revisions of AS is now broken!
 
Under all previous versions, setting measure/beat xx:01:000 to fall on a certain absolute Now time would modify the most recent tempo to make that happen and insert an equivalent tempo at that point, both in absolute time and M:B:T time. Now, it inserts the tempo change at the M:B:T where that absolute time used to be!
 
This totally screws up the logic of snapping the time ruler to MIDI or Audio in such a way that you have tempo changes right on known beats and bar lines. Now they end up being on oddball tick values in between beats, and depending on what you snap, the new tempo may be many measures away from where you intended it to be - maybe even outside the new range of measures occupied by the project.
 
What a mess.
 
 
P.S. What happened to the message formatting controls? The page crashed while I was trying to italicize some words in this post, and when I started it over, the formatting controls were gone.    
 

CWBRN-2568 - Set Measure/Beat At Now Inserts Tempo at M:B:T Where Now Used to Be 
 
Description:
Open a new project from the Normal template (120BPM).
 
Enable snap to grid at measures, click in the time ruler to set Now at 13:01:000 (24.000 seconds).

Hit Ctrl-M, enter Measure 11, and click OK.
 
Open the Tempo view, and note where the new tempo (100BPM) was inserted.


Expected Result:
The tempo change should be inserted at the specified Now time (24.000 seconds), which, with the change in the original tempo from 120 to 100BPM should now fall at 11:01:000. 

 
Actual Result:
The tempo change will have been inserted at 13:01:000, which is now at 28.800 seconds.
This completely alters the logic of Set Measure/Beat At Now, making it impossible to end up with a tempo map that has tempo changes inserted right on the specified measures and beats in the music. In this example, the change is still on an even measure, but with a real piece of music, the tempo changes can end up being on whatever random tick the beat originally fell when imported to a project of a different tempo or recorded without a click.
 
I believe this change in logic occurred with the 8.5.3 patch. I have verified it works in the expected (correct) way in 8.3.1, and I'm fairly sure it still worked this way in 8.5.2.
 

 

post edited by brundlefly - 2010/02/22 21:50:10

Bump too.

I have reported the problem and if more members do so it will be fixed. Cannot understand why they would release 200mb of updated  code that screws audiosnap up even more.
I also have a problem if I use the Sonitus Delay, I get that terrible echo sound that was fixed in 8.5.2 but is back with in 8.5.3. Its to do with certain plugins not clearing its buffers and you have to stop and start the audio engine.

So brundlefly, are you saying that using the ctrl+m will not be accurate to tempo map a song from an audio file in 8.5.3? Geeze i hope not! Does anyone have a work around? Any word from cake when this will be addressed? This is a pretty important feature that i used quite alot since Audio Snap 2.0 is still a little under baked. Any info anyone?

Thanks,
Tommy

brundlefly

So brundlefly, are you saying that using the ctrl+m will not be accurate to tempo map a song from an audio file in 8.5.3?

 
It will create a serviceable one, it just won't place the tempo changes right on the measure/beat lines that you specify, and you really have to work consistently from one end to the other, unlike in previous versions which had no problem with snapping a location near the end to establish an overall average tempo, and and then going back and snapping additional intermediate points a necessary.
 
Personally, Im not going to use it until they fix it, and if it isn't fixed soon, I may well go back to 8.5.2. but I'll have to start from scratch with 8.0 and the 8.5 download, because I haven't fully learned my lesson about setting a restore point before upgrading.

Ok, so, what if you create a tempo map from scratch without an audio reference track? Does everything work the way its supposed to in that respect?

Oh boy. It worked so well before.

Does Cakewalk use beta testers that actually "test" the stuff that is supposedly "fixed" ? And why would they attempt to fix something that wasn't even broken.

It's to early in the morning for this.

pianodano


Oh boy. It worked so well before.

Does Cakewalk use beta testers that actually "test" the stuff that is supposedly "fixed" ? And why would they attempt to fix something that wasn't even broken.

It's to early in the morning for this.

Don't get betatesters confused with people who have any kind of say so of "when" a product gets released.  And for the record, I've seen a last minute fix break a feature that was a "given."  So, it happens.

Just curious--did you receive any response from CW about the problem?

 
No I haven't. I pinged Tech support about it when I was mailing them about another issue, and they did not mention it in the reply (blowing me off about the other issue). And the report is still in NEW status on their website. Not very encouraging.
 
I've gotten no joy on any of about a dozen issues I've submitted over the past few years, both through Tech Support, and through the Problem Reporter. Even the one they said was fixed (Peak+RMS mode not saved for record meters) in 8.5.3 is still broken.
 
I still get along pretty well with the product as a whole, but it is aggravating to get so little attention to defects, expecially those that were introduced by a new patch/version, and should be easily restored to working order.
 
And for a problem report to remain in NEW status for two months when it takes about a minute to test, and is 100% reproducible is just inexcusible.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

For many years I have been of the mind that there should be 2 versions of Sonar.  1 version for the new person starting out that needs possibly everything imagineable and that is constantly being updated with the newest and latest wizbang thingy for guitars, fixing player timing errors, shabby vocalists parts, loop de loops, ad nauseuem.

But 1 version really needs to basically be set in stone and, we longer term users need the option to pony up a yearly "subscription" fee that would be used to pay dedicated staff to fix  existing problems uncovered by the more experienced users of that version. Personally, I would be more than happy to forgo any more "upgrades" or "features?" in a case like that.  Though I have not been running Sonar as long as many users, I have been with Cakewalk since Version 3 and have seen each new "upgrade" break some portion or make unusable some part of the software that worked perfectly well before.  

I would really like to see Cakewalk  get off this yearly upgrade path as the primary means of generating revenue. I am now of the opinion that unless another method is instituted, we will never have a trully perfected program in our lifetimes.

Danny

Cannot understand the fact, that CW knows that 8.5.3 broke Set Measure/Beat At Now, but it seems to me that no one cares.

It will help if everyone who cares on this side logs a problem report:


http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/ProblemReporter/


Cakewalk supposedly sets priorities in part according to how many duplicate reports they get on a particular issue. Also, having additional reports with different "recipes" can help them reproduce it for themselves - though I don't think that's a problem in this case.

Maybe things are fixed in the 8.5.3.282 version?  I use audiosnap to bring up transients in my audio clips, enable snapping to transients, tabbing to a transient sets Now time on it, hit CTRL-M and enter the beat I want to lock the transient too and done.  It inserts a tempo in the tempo map, where the Now time was that causes the selected transient to move to the M:B:T entered in the dialog.  This what I use audiosnap for.  It seems to be working fine. 
 
I just used the Set measure/beat at now to tempo map a couple minutes of audio that was recorded without a metronome.  Moving the tempo map to the transients allows loops to be added and play in sync with the recorded audio.  EZ Drummer and the media browser are both great for this.   A dream come true compared to Pro Audio. 
 
I would like to understand the problem you are describing.  If you wanted to insert a tempo on an even bar or measure wouldn't you use insert tempo for that?  

it's a big problem if you try to set points between points that have already been set.

 
I did notice this problem.  Before I would align the audio with a few well spaced points and the audio would then be fairly well synced with the time ruler.  Then I would go back and fix it some more in the middle.  With the latest rev when I go to tighten up a couple spots in the middle it unhinges the original alignment.  Now I have to work in one direction -  start to finish and that works OK.
 
In the past I never found the Set M/B feature to be too automatic or forgiving.  Many times I blew up the tempo map and had to undo or use the pencil tool to smooth things.  Luckily most of my stuff sounds like it came from Bob Dylan's basement tapes anyway.
 
I have yet to master the set project to clip.  It might eliminate my need for the Set M/B at now.   

Enable snap to grid at measures, click in the time ruler to set Now at 13:01:000 (24.000 seconds).
 Hit Ctrl-M, enter Measure 11, and click OK.

 
Why wouldn't you click set the time ruler to set Now at measure 11 if you wanted measure 11?
Are you expecting the now time to move to measure 11 by hitting ctrl-M? If you set the time ruler to 13:01:000 for the Now time, why would you then select measure 11 with ctrl M? If you started with a Now time of 0 and used ctrl M to go to measure 11 what would it do?

bump