Helpful ReplyTTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1?

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arachnaut
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2012/11/24 14:20:22 (permalink)

TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1?

Today I fired up TTS-1 for the first time in X2. I could not get the program changes to work right.
I've been working all morning to try to figure this out and it has me stumped.

So to check my sanity I loaded Sonar Studio X1 and set it up the same way. It worked as I expect! I had used this several times in Studio before upgrading to Producer.

Then I loaded Sonar Producer X1 and it also worked as I expected. I had use this several times in the past.

So I went back to Sonar Producer X2 and it does not work as I expect.

Here is my set up. I have a software tool called Fractal Tune Smithy (FTS) that generates MIDI data and can be programmed to send GM patch changes and other stuff. It is something like Band-in-a-box, but it generates Fractal tunes. I have it connected to Loopbe MIDI port 1 which I have selected as MIDI input in Sonar.

Using Studio or Producer X1 here is what I see:

When I start FTS, Sonar plays immediately with the TTS-1 patches properly set. When I change an FTS instrument, the instrument immediately changes in TTS-1.

Using Producer X2 things are different:

When I start FTS, nothing plays until I select the Sonar window, then when that window has focus I hear notes. But all the TTS-1 channels are set to defaults. I can not get TTS-1 to accept the program changes.
If I start the Sonar transport, then I can hear notes even when I select the FTS window - but this is different on X1 - it didn't matter if the transport was running or the window selected.

I looked through all my settings in X1 and X2 and they mostly match where it is important.

I tried checking and unchecking a few things like resetting controllers and stuff, but there was no change.

This has me stumped. Any ideas?

EDIT:
PS: there is only one version of TTS-1 for X1 and X2 - it is in 'C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Shared DXi\TTS-1'
It is version 1.00 dated 2004.




- Jim Hurley -
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    arachnaut
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/24 15:16:27 (permalink)
    I copied the 32-bit version of TTS-1 from my old system and installed it in the Program Files (x86) path; and tried it in Band-in-a-box on my 64-bit system. It works as I expect - program changes occur automatically.

    So Sonar X1 64-bit and BIAB 32-bit work fine on this system, but Sonar X2 64-bit does not process the program changes properly.



    - Jim Hurley -
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    arachnaut
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/24 16:17:02 (permalink)
    Another test - I record the MIDI track from FTS in Sonar X2 and examine the program changes - they are all there.

    Now when I play the recorded track, the program changes work!

    So it seems that something is filtering the real-time MIDI messages?


    - Jim Hurley -
    SONAR Platinum - x64  - Windows 10 Pro 
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    PeterMc
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/24 16:36:36 (permalink)
    If you set up a simple instrument track with output to TTS, can you change patches in the inspector and see them happen instantly in the TTS GUI? I can do this in X2 on Win7-64bit.
     
    Also, can you get this to happen on a channel other than 1? I've been confused about how to change midi channels to TTS, and I note in another post that M_Glenn_M has been too.
     
    Cheers, Peter.
     

    i5 6500, H170M, Intel HD 530, 16GB, Focusrite Scarlett 8i6, Win 10 Pro (1803) (64 bit), Cakewalk by Bandlab

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    SuperG
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/24 18:20:09 (permalink)
    arachnaut


    I copied the 32-bit version of TTS-1 from my old system and installed it in the Program Files (x86) path; and tried it in Band-in-a-box on my 64-bit system. It works as I expect - program changes occur automatically.

    So Sonar X1 64-bit and BIAB 32-bit work fine on this system, but Sonar X2 64-bit does not process the program changes properly.

    There is an issue with program changes in X2 that does not exist in X1 - whether your's is related to the one I reported or not I don't know.


    If you display a track with program changes in piano-roll mode or in the PRV, X2 will crash.
     



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    swamptooth
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/24 19:08:24 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
    just tried tts-1 with my oxy49 keyboard in both x2 and x1. same thing you're getting.  program changes work in x1 not in x2. inserted a load of program changes in the project and had arpeggiator running with automation and they all worked fine. looks like a routing question.  i also opened the midi track in prv and let it play and x2 DID NOT crash or experience any abnormal issues.  played as expected.

     
    Arvid H. Peterson
    Sonar X3E Prod / X2A  / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure Data
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    arachnaut
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/24 19:50:35 (permalink)
    PeterMc


    If you set up a simple instrument track with output to TTS, can you change patches in the inspector and see them happen instantly in the TTS GUI? I can do this in X2 on Win7-64bit.
     
    Also, can you get this to happen on a channel other than 1? I've been confused about how to change midi channels to TTS, and I note in another post that M_Glenn_M has been too.
     
    Cheers, Peter.
     

    That would work if I use only a single instrument off TTS-1 per track. But I am using it as a multi-timbral instrument on a single track. So I send the patch changes and stuff all on one track.

    I could set up 16 channels with TTS-1 in each on is own channel and it may work.

    But the point it, this was working fine before, so I must have changed something that I can't think of (or there is a bug in X2).




    - Jim Hurley -
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    arachnaut
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/24 19:59:26 (permalink)
    SuperG


    arachnaut


    I copied the 32-bit version of TTS-1 from my old system and installed it in the Program Files (x86) path; and tried it in Band-in-a-box on my 64-bit system. It works as I expect - program changes occur automatically.

    So Sonar X1 64-bit and BIAB 32-bit work fine on this system, but Sonar X2 64-bit does not process the program changes properly.

    There is an issue with program changes in X2 that does not exist in X1 - whether your's is related to the one I reported or not I don't know.


    If you display a track with program changes in piano-roll mode or in the PRV, X2 will crash.


    When I switch to PRV I did not see any problems (except you can't tell which instrument gets the note).

    When I turned off PRV, X2 crashed! Probably same bug as yours. It got sent by the Fault reporter.

    PRV isn't very useful in a multi-timbral track.




    - Jim Hurley -
    SONAR Platinum - x64  - Windows 10 Pro 
    ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0;  Core i7-2600K@4.4GHz; 16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X;
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    arachnaut
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/24 20:01:13 (permalink)
    swamptooth


    just tried tts-1 with my oxy49 keyboard in both x2 and x1. same thing you're getting.  program changes work in x1 not in x2. inserted a load of program changes in the project and had arpeggiator running with automation and they all worked fine. looks like a routing question.  i also opened the midi track in prv and let it play and x2 DID NOT crash or experience any abnormal issues.  played as expected.

    Well, that's a relief. I can stop looking for system issues now.


    I'll just have to use X1 when I do this until the multi-timbral issues get worked out in X2. I suppose Win8 support is getting focused on right now.





    - Jim Hurley -
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    swamptooth
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/24 20:56:00 (permalink)
    for the heckuvit i loaded up the groovesynth as well. same results. looks like a problem with sonar's dxi synths.

     
    Arvid H. Peterson
    Sonar X3E Prod / X2A  / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure Data
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    swamptooth
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/24 21:39:38 (permalink)
    double checked all vsti's and they work ok.  yeah dxi problem.

     
    Arvid H. Peterson
    Sonar X3E Prod / X2A  / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure Data
    Native-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other plugins
    Home-brewed VSTs 
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    SuperG
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/24 22:14:41 (permalink)
    swamptooth


    just tried tts-1 with my oxy49 keyboard in both x2 and x1. same thing you're getting.  program changes work in x1 not in x2. inserted a load of program changes in the project and had arpeggiator running with automation and they all worked fine. looks like a routing question.  i also opened the midi track in prv and let it play and x2 DID NOT crash or experience any abnormal issues.  played as expected.

    It's is possible there may be some differences - in my case the project started by opening a pre-existing midi file (later saved as a .cwp). I'm not sure if my problem would carry over or not to tracks originally authored (or recorded) within Sonar - I'll have to look into that.
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/25 04:53:47 (permalink)
    Well now, I just tried to replicate this and every attempt to insert TTS-1 results in an instant fatal crash of Sonar, right back to the desktop

    Seems like I've got 1 or 2  problems as the Pentagon is also acting weird

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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    SuperG
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/25 11:41:10 (permalink)
    Just to haul it out once again - here's a video demonstration of my issue with the PRV, FWIW.

    http://forum.cakewalk.com...px?m=2714509&high=
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    arachnaut
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/25 13:25:10 (permalink)
    SuperG


    swamptooth


    just tried tts-1 with my oxy49 keyboard in both x2 and x1. same thing you're getting.  program changes work in x1 not in x2. inserted a load of program changes in the project and had arpeggiator running with automation and they all worked fine. looks like a routing question.  i also opened the midi track in prv and let it play and x2 DID NOT crash or experience any abnormal issues.  played as expected.

    It's is possible there may be some differences - in my case the project started by opening a pre-existing midi file (later saved as a .cwp). I'm not sure if my problem would carry over or not to tracks originally authored (or recorded) within Sonar - I'll have to look into that.



    To be clear - there is no problem using TTS-1 on recorded MIDI files or tracks recorded/played-back from real-time -it's only on the real-time auditioning/monitoring during recording. Somehow, the program change messages aren't sent to the DXi synth.





    - Jim Hurley -
    SONAR Platinum - x64  - Windows 10 Pro 
    ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0;  Core i7-2600K@4.4GHz; 16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X;
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    swamptooth
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/25 13:40:12 (permalink)
    arachnaut


    SuperG


    swamptooth


    just tried tts-1 with my oxy49 keyboard in both x2 and x1. same thing you're getting.  program changes work in x1 not in x2. inserted a load of program changes in the project and had arpeggiator running with automation and they all worked fine. looks like a routing question.  i also opened the midi track in prv and let it play and x2 DID NOT crash or experience any abnormal issues.  played as expected.

    It's is possible there may be some differences - in my case the project started by opening a pre-existing midi file (later saved as a .cwp). I'm not sure if my problem would carry over or not to tracks originally authored (or recorded) within Sonar - I'll have to look into that.



    To be clear - there is no problem using TTS-1 on recorded MIDI files or tracks recorded/played-back from real-time -it's only on the real-time auditioning/monitoring during recording. Somehow, the program change messages aren't sent to the DXi synth.

    precisely.

     
    Arvid H. Peterson
    Sonar X3E Prod / X2A  / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure Data
    Native-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other plugins
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    Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64)  
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    arachnaut
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/25 13:42:32 (permalink)

    By the way, if you are looking for a DX -> VST interface here is a good, free, tool:

    http://xlutop.com/buzz/zip/dxshell_v1.0.4b.zip
    Put in your VST path and after you scan VSTs it will appear as a folder with your DXi entries. It will also show audio and midi dx effects as VST audio effect.

    - Jim Hurley -
    SONAR Platinum - x64  - Windows 10 Pro 
    ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0;  Core i7-2600K@4.4GHz; 16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X;
    GeForce GT 740; Saffire Pro14 MixControl 3.7; Axiom 61
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    swamptooth
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/25 14:36:08 (permalink)
    damn wish exposed mfx parameters for automation. :(

     
    Arvid H. Peterson
    Sonar X3E Prod / X2A  / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure Data
    Native-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other plugins
    Home-brewed VSTs 
    Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64)  
    Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs 
    M-Audio Fast Track Ultra
    Member, ASCAP   


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    arachnaut
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    Re:TTS-1 program changes in X2 don't work; but work in X1? 2012/11/26 09:19:23 (permalink)
    I submitted this: CWBRN-13184

    - Jim Hurley -
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