twaddle
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/07 12:35:25
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John
Those that are old hands with BFD 2 if you have any tips I for one would appreciate hearing them.
If it's running fine without drop outs and pops and crackles on your C drive then I guess there's no reason to move it. If however you do start to notice problems it's very easy to just move the adio/data folder to another drive and then tell BFD2 where to find it, then trash and rebuild your databases. I have a drive dedicated solely to drums, 330GB is BFD contents including Eco and the rest is Battery & EZdrummer. Eco being lighter can sit quite happily on your C-drive particularly on more up to date DAWS. Also should maybe mention an internal 7200rpm drive or firewire drive would be preferable to external usb Steve
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John
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/07 12:54:38
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Funkybot
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/07 13:15:39
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In terms of best practices I have three drives I use:
C:\ Program files/Operating System
D:\ Cakewalk Audio Files
E:\ Samples
This way, no one drive is getting overtaxed regardless of what I"m doing.
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miguelito
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/07 13:22:37
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Just when I start to get my head around Superior Drummer this comes along...(LOL)
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vintagevibe
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/07 13:37:19
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Funkybot
guitartrek
John - I'm a Superior user and am entrigued with your comment about drum names showing up without a drum map. How does that occur? And can you alter the order of the drum piece names so that you can put all the toms together, all the hihats together, etc.?
There's something in BFD2 that tells Sonar the note names. How it works is beyond me, but it does.
Can you change it? Yes, if you adjust the keymap in BFD2, those changes will be reflected in Sonar's PRV.
Doesn't that adjust the actual note assignments as well? In a drum map you can move things around while keeping their assignments which is VERY handy.
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jimkleban
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/07 18:50:31
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So, just another update... I believe that BFD3 is on the horizon (its been discussed for months on the BFD forum).
I think it is great that you can load more or less velocity layers at will if RAM is an issue. I think a lot of the drum kit pieces have as many as 256 different layers of velocities but.... if BFD2 is missing one thing that I find required is that they don't have many articulations for their kit pieces (I hope that they address this in BFD3).
Now, I am not complaining because just a few years ago when must of us were in the 32 bit world, they had to make a choice between articulations vs velocity layers (they choose the later). This is the one area (at least for me) that holds BFD2 back from being my goto drum sampler.
Also, I have every add-on pack for BFD2 that they offer and having all these kit pieces is amazing.
I am not overly fond of the ROOM where they tracked the drums for the ambient mics... and there is no way to control the pan of a kit piece in the OH mics (which you couldn't do in the real world) but this limits you on where in the sound stage your kit pieces can be.... (in the real world if a drummer had a china on the right side of this kit, then the OHs would have the CHINA on the right side but in BFD2, you are stuck with wherever the CHINA was when tracked). I know, this sounds like nick picking but other drum kits give some control of the panning in the OH mics (i have had many a discussion on the BFD forum over this).
Also, the add on packs from PLATINUM samples are quite good as well. BUt just like the BFD2 kits, I want more articulations, especially on the toms.
Oh well, I have quite a big investment in BFD2 platform and I haven't abandoned them just don't use them as much as I thought I would.
Jim
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John
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/07 21:47:21
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Thats funny I was thinking how nice the articulations are.
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noynekker
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/07 23:23:19
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I've only had BFD2 a few months now, could not resist the upgrade path from BFD Eco.
It's true that it works within Sonar flawlessly, when set up properly.
Thanks guys . . . this thread has helped clarify a few conceptual things I was struggling about in my learning of BFD2.
Especially the concept that Fxpansion have tried to duplicate a full studio microphoned kit, as opposed to my previous drum
plugins, where they merely played samples with simple velocity layers.
The BFD2 mixer therefore responds differently, because each kit piece is affected by microphone bleed, just a real kit would.
I have very little "studio" experience with drum kit miking, so that makes the learning curve a little steeper.
What attracted me most to getting BFD2 (apart from loving Fxpansion's old DR008 module) was the fact that you can edit and create grooves (looks + works similar to Music Lab Slicy Drummer ?), and also that it can all be powerfully pre-mixed onto 1 Sonar channel. Previously I was using track templates, and mapping kit pieces to many channels, room buses, etc . . .
Having a drum module that does all that, well it's simple, clean and efficiently realistic.
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sharke
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/07 23:26:09
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Does anyone else read BFD as Big Friendly Drums? I really gotta grow up....  EDIT: Apparently that's what it actually stands for. +1000 to meeeeeee!
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vintagevibe
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/08 01:54:07
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sharke
Does anyone else read BFD as Big Friendly Drums? I really gotta grow up....
EDIT: Apparently that's what it actually stands for. +1000 to meeeeeee!
It doesn't stand for "Friendly" but it is an "F" word. So says Angus the developer and head of the company.
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/08 03:31:09
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Funkybot
In terms of best practices I have three drives I use:
C:\ Program files/Operating System
D:\ Cakewalk Audio Files
E:\ Samples
This way, no one drive is getting overtaxed regardless of what I"m doing.
John, the above is how I have mine also. I would say this above ^ is definitely one of the best tips for BFD 2 and any other sampler you may be using. The other thing is, if you are using BFD in 24 bit mode, you can switch to 16 bit mode by ticking the box on your options. There is no sound difference and your sample loads will be cut in half. I've done extensive testing in both 24 and 16 bit modes with it....if the difference is there somewhere, my ears sure can't pick it up. :) -Danny
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/08 04:47:43
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jkleban
if BFD2 is missing one thing that I find required is that they don't have many articulations for their kit pieces (I hope that they address this in BFD3).
Jim
Interesting. In my opinion, this is where BFD shines the most. Hi Hats alone have 12 articulations, most cymbals have 2 or 3, even some toms have 2 or 3, snares can have as many as 5 or 6
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jimkleban
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/08 07:34:39
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Compare the articulations in BFD to say Addictive Drums or Abbey Road drums... then you will see many articulations and that's what I am talking about. For TOM fills, there is NO off center hits (you know, the hits that have that POP sound of a TOM fill. The ones that give the accent... not there in BFD2... but is in the other mentioned programs. This isn't the only example of where more articulations are lacking... but like I said, the approach was limited by RAM management of the day... these more modern programs don't have the same design limitations and BFD chose to have very many velocities which sounds very realistic. It was a trade off IMHO.
But, being a BFD2 fan, like it has been said, one drum program over another drum program is where you need to use the right tool for the job. Example, in Abbey Road drums, I can't do a realistic snare drum roll that starts with soft hits and works it way to loud hits because there isn't enough velocity layers as compared to BFD2.
But if you like the number of articulations in BFD2, then great... I wish that there were more.
Jim
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/08 07:41:26
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It'll be interesting to see what BFD3 brings to the table
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twaddle
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/08 07:44:51
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Hmm
The only articulations you don't get with the stock BFD2 kits are for the toms as you pointed out.
And as jonesy pointed out, hats have up to 12, and snares have 5 or 6, kicks have 2 and most cymbals have 2 while some have 3. (I think)
I agree with regards to the toms lacking in that department, you'd think with 10 complete kits at least a couple of tom sets would have rim and rim click articulations. The expansion packs do have them but that's not how it should be.
Steve
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/08 08:48:30
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I think the Dunnetts have 3, if you're still on the fence..................
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twaddle
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/08 15:02:20
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Bristol_Jonesey
I think the Dunnetts have 3, if you're still on the fence..................
You mean me sitting on the fence? I've listened to the demo and I like it but what I heard didn't sound too versatile? All the demo's, and there are only 3" are using the amp channel, would be nice to hear the kit without it. I wish they wouldn't have music in the demo's  I'll get the dunnett kit if you get the cocktail, apart from the 8 bit kit it's one of my favourite expansions as it very versatile especially for it's size. + it's one of the cheapest Steve
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TraceyStudios
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/08 16:02:32
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Glad to hear it Jbow Just as a word of warning, BFD2 like superior drummer isn't really for people that want drums that sound polished out of the box, it's for people who want to do their own polishing. Having said that there are presets included that come in different genres but there aren't as many as addictive drums but many more than ezdrummer. I'm only saying this because some people have complained that it doesn't sound like the drums they here on the records they like which to my mind is probably a good thing Steve
They do have some presets that are already polished (which have compression, gates etc already applied). Great starting point! It is an amazing program. A few vids to check out if you are not familiar with BFD2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzgA6HVtu10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0oEN3P73pk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eYk-BZNnR4
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jimkleban
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/08 20:15:43
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Twaddle,
Just trying to point out what I think the weak points of BFD2 are (which are nothing more than my opinion) but with that said, when you go an MAP a kit piece articulation to a note, you may find that the articulation is listed as an option but there is NONE to load. Don't remember if it is greyed out or just doesn't load for it has been awhile since I have created custom drum maps for BFD2.
But for me, the toms (and maybe some cymbal hits) are very important for my work to have many realistic variations... check out all the artics for the hihats in Abbey Road if you want to see a huge potential list.... but even with all these, I still miss a tight closed hi hat HIT with a loose closed hi hat HIT... they sound totally different and yet most sets don't give you both options.
With all this said, todays options are a huge advance for drum sample programs as compared to only a few years ago.
So, I use BFD2 for drum tracks but not all the time and not for all kit pieces.... works for me. Like I said, the GEN 16 packs are tops and the best cymbal samples I have every heard or used.
Jim
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/09 04:09:15
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@Jim, you could try layering a closed hat with a 1/4 or 1/2 closed tip (or shank) - that should give you what you want.
@Steve - I might just have a look at the Cocktail kit, you can never have too many drums!!
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twaddle
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/09 16:28:43
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Jim I'm in complete agreement with regards to the toms at least. I don't do an awful lot with the hi-hats and I'm more than happy with 12 articulations.
I do seem to remember articulations showing but not being available though having just checked it doesn't seem to be the case right now, are you on the latest version?
It's currently at V.2..3.1.6.
Well Mr jonesy I gawn and Dunnet, I bought the Dunnet Kit and haven't had much time to play with it yet but it's interesting.
Have you used it in anger yet and do we get to hear it?
Steve
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/09 16:45:29
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Steve - I've used it but not in a metal context.
When I'm at my DAW next, I'll send you a link, be interesting to see what you think
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bobguitkillerleft
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/09 16:57:57
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I wish I could learn BFD,as it definitely has a more real drummer vibe about it when its tweaked,especially as Steve Corr has it sounding on his soundcloud,I definitely got that earlier yesterday/today[time zone stuff-no pun intended]. My problem is I want everything to sound like the end of the world,and SSD4 Old Zep[with other kicks n tweaks] and its just soo much easier on my Marshall 2203 hammered brain to get "that kinda" thing happening,and quickly. I hope to one day agree,but alas it's SSD/Old Zep almost everytime and usually my own patterns[not many toms unfortunately]with some cool fills from the EZ files or the Steve Ferone Grooves from Platinum Samples. Bob PS when it cools out in the desktop room[no insulation] in Autumn I hope to really learn BFD2.
post edited by bobguitkillerleft - 2013/01/09 17:06:16
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John
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/09 17:52:52
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Bob I agree with you about the SSD4. They sound great. I have them too. What I don't like is the GUI of the player and the lack of auto drum maps. Plus, though I can't be as sure as I should be, I believe BFD2 has an edge in ones ability to have the sound your own way. SSD4 is a worthy drum synth I wont deny that. BFD2 just fits me more in almost every way. Is it perfect? No, but close, very close.
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KevinD
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/10 14:03:54
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Ahh so I have finished up with X2 + the patch and things are good thus far. I let my curiosity get the best of me and opened up an old project from 6.x with BFD 1.5... Naturally it was not able to load any BFD but the MIDI was still there... I figured why not copy the midi to a new track and use Session Drummer... I did and it matched almost 100% of the hits, I'm impressed! However, I'm not impressed enough to not spend the cash on BFD 2 upgrade :)
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twaddle
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/10 14:29:50
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KevinD
Ahh so I have finished up with X2 + the patch and things are good thus far. I let my curiosity get the best of me and opened up an old project from 6.x with BFD 1.5... Naturally it was not able to load any BFD but the MIDI was still there... I figured why not copy the midi to a new track and use Session Drummer... I did and it matched almost 100% of the hits, I'm impressed! However, I'm not impressed enough to not spend the cash on BFD 2 upgrade :)
Oh I see, for a moment I misread that as you weren't impressed enough to upgrade to BFD2 I'm so relieved to see I misread it. Steve
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twaddle
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/10 14:38:07
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Bristol_Jonesey
Steve - I've used it but not in a metal context.
When I'm at my DAW next, I'll send you a link, be interesting to see what you think
I'm not a metal fan by any stretch of the imagination (unless your're talking early sabath or uriah heep) so I'm quite pleased about that.  Look forward to it. As fir the cocktail kit, the second track on my soundcloud, "Abstraction" is the only thing I have up that's using the cocktail kit but it's loaded with effects so you're not hearing it in the naughty nude. It's a very short piece that's a work in progress. Steve
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bobguitkillerleft
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/10 19:42:15
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John
Bob I agree with you about the SSD4. They sound great. I have them too. What I don't like is the GUI of the player and the lack of auto drum maps. Plus, though I can't be as sure as I should be, I believe BFD2 has an edge in ones ability to have the sound your own way. SSD4 is a worthy drum synth I wont deny that. BFD2 just fits me more in almost every way. Is it perfect? No, but close, very close.
John,I didn't realize you answered until now unfortunately,anyway with SSD I'm in total agreement on the GUI,in fact on my 1366x768 laptop screen the bottom of the mixer page will NOT SHOW[just "scrolling" arrow],which brings about all sorts of difficulties. This is embarrasing,but I still don't know what a"drum map" is[well not completely],not for lack of trying,do you mean that,when in Piano Roll,the drum names automatically match?,without having to change to "generic MIDI" instead of piano keys? Bob
post edited by bobguitkillerleft - 2013/01/10 20:01:25
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John
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/10 19:59:59
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bobguitkillerleft
John
Bob I agree with you about the SSD4. They sound great. I have them too. What I don't like is the GUI of the player and the lack of auto drum maps. Plus, though I can't be as sure as I should be, I believe BFD2 has an edge in ones ability to have the sound your own way. SSD4 is a worthy drum synth I wont deny that. BFD2 just fits me more in almost every way. Is it perfect? No, but close, very close.
John,I didn't realize you answered until now unfortunately,anyway with SSD I'm in total agreement on the GUI,in fact on my 1366x768 laptop screen the bottom of the mixer page will NOT SHOW[just "scrolling" arrow],which brings about all sorts of difficulties.
This is embarrasing,but I still don't know what a"drum map" is,not for lack of trying,do you mean that,when in Piano Roll,the drum names automatically match?,without having to change to "generic MIDI" instead of piano keys?
Bob
Bob not to worry. Yes that is exactly what I mean. In the PRV with BFD 2 or Eco the drum names show up as they are in the synth automatically. This happens even if you change the setup by adding a drum. A drum map is a CW thing that will do this but you have to either have one already or make one. What it does is let you put a name to a note and route as you like. It can be used for other things too. Battery 3 does not automatically do this thus you to have a drum map or make one. With SSD4 there are none and thus you have to make your own. To me this is a big deal. Now there is no reason for embarrassment what so ever. What is embarrassing is an unasked question.
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jimkleban
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Re:Sonar X2 and BFD 2 is a marrige made in heaven.
2013/01/10 20:00:28
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Twaddle (Steve),
I am at the last full version release of the x64... I really am reluctant to load in the BETA BFD2 stuff (even though they are pretty rock solid). I already spend way too much time being a computer geek than a musician in my studio. But if you tell me it is worth it, I will try it.
I have a new DAW being built by Scott C and ADK... Apollo Thunderbolt running under WIN 7 (he tells me he can do this) and will be spending hours loading up my software in a couple of weeks. Might as well upgrade BFD2 then.
Bristol, honestly, I never thought of layering a closed hihat with one of the open hat artics but it does sound like an interesting experiment, especially since you can control the gain of separate samples on the main screen. It might work????
Thanks to all,
Jim
The Lamb Laid Down on MIDI www.lldom.com Studio Cat Custom i7 with Thunderbolt (wonderful system built and configured by our own Jim R) Apollo Duo (via TB) UAD Quad UAD Duo WIN 8.1 x64 with 32 GB Ram 4 SSD for programs and sample libraries Splat (latest version)
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