Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal?

Page: 12 > Showing page 1 of 2
Author
razor
Max Output Level: -59.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1557
  • Joined: 2004/05/10 16:53:27
  • Location: Irvine, CA
  • Status: offline
2013/05/07 16:04:57 (permalink)

Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal?

Let me start of by saying I'm not trolling. I used to help manage a small project studio where we had Macs and PCs and our Macs broke down, crashed, etc. so much more frequently than the PCs,  I used to say "the only good thing about Macs is that you can run Digital Performer on them".
 
I am not familiar with DP, but I am a big fan of MOTU sound cards. I just read today that after many years of being Mac exclusive, DP is now available for PC.
 
So, for those of you who know, why is X2 better than DP? I'm no where near purchase mode, but I am looking to upgrade my PC system next year and I would really appreciate your constructive comparisons.
 
Thanks!

Stephen Davis
 
Cakewalk by Bandlab
Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit
ADK DAW - (out of business 2018)
Intel i7 4930K CPU
Core i7 SB-E MOBO
16 GB DDR3 RAM
7 TB Storage
Layla 3G SoundCard (11.5 ms Roundtrip Latency)
UAD-2 DSP
WaveLab 8 Pro 64-bit 
Sound Forge 10 Pro
#1

46 Replies Related Threads

    Rain
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 9736
    • Joined: 2003/11/07 05:10:12
    • Location: Las Vegas
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/07 16:17:30 (permalink)
    Posted on the "other" software forum. 
     
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2824611


    Quote - 
    I used to say "the only good thing about Macs is that you can run Digital Performer on them". 
      
    I am not familiar with DP









    TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
    #2
    razor
    Max Output Level: -59.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1557
    • Joined: 2004/05/10 16:53:27
    • Location: Irvine, CA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/07 16:37:36 (permalink)
    Rain


    Posted on the "other" software forum. 

    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2824611


    Quote - 
    I used to say "the only good thing about Macs is that you can run Digital Performer on them". 
     
    I am not familiar with DP







    Irony. See what I did there? Since I don't like Macs... Pretty funny, eh?

    Stephen Davis
     
    Cakewalk by Bandlab
    Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit
    ADK DAW - (out of business 2018)
    Intel i7 4930K CPU
    Core i7 SB-E MOBO
    16 GB DDR3 RAM
    7 TB Storage
    Layla 3G SoundCard (11.5 ms Roundtrip Latency)
    UAD-2 DSP
    WaveLab 8 Pro 64-bit 
    Sound Forge 10 Pro
    #3
    vintagevibe
    Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2446
    • Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
    • Location: Atlanta, Ga
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/07 16:39:04 (permalink)
    razor


    Let me start of by saying I'm not trolling. I used to help manage a small project studio where we had Macs and PCs and our Macs broke down, crashed, etc. so much more frequently than the PCs,  I used to say "the only good thing about Macs is that you can run Digital Performer on them".
     
    I am not familiar with DP, but I am a big fan of MOTU sound cards. I just read today that after many years of being Mac exclusive, DP is now available for PC.
     
    So, for those of you who know, why is X2 better than DP? I'm no where near purchase mode, but I am looking to upgrade my PC system next year and I would really appreciate your constructive comparisons.
     
    Thanks!

    For notation and (to a lesser extent) video, DP (and most other DAWs) are decades ahead of Sonar which completely ignores these functions.  If you don't need notation or video Sonar is fine.
    #4
    Jimbo 88
    Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1828
    • Joined: 2007/03/19 12:27:17
    • Location: Elmhurst, Illinois USA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/07 22:54:08 (permalink)
    Yea,  DP8 is great for playing back video.  If you are scoring a film it has it all over Sonar with it's "chunks" and Streamers and other features .  

    The notation in DP8 is way better,  but still not anything to get excited about.  Still clunky way to work.  Lead sheets out of Dp8 are waay ahead.

    Sonar's Prochannel and other mixing features are by far better than DP8.  As is midi editing.

    DP8 does not handle 64 bit plugins very well.  If you are going to load up an Orchestra you will most likely need VEP 5 or another 3rd party app outside of DP8 unlike Sonar.
      
    You can change colors in DP8,  but Sonar is still easier to customize.  Sonar is easier with Screen setups and Screen Shots..

    I can see me using DP8 for film work, but Sonar will be what I use to create and mix a song.    

    Cakewalk By Bandlab
    Cubase 9.5 Pro
    Windows 7 64 Bit   Core i7-8700   32 Gig Ram 3.20ghz  
    RME Fireface 400 Audio Card
    Behringer FCA 1616
    Sweetwater Creation Station
     
    #5
    jsg
    Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1079
    • Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
    • Location: San Francisco, California
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 00:40:12 (permalink)
    vintagevibe


    razor


    Let me start of by saying I'm not trolling. I used to help manage a small project studio where we had Macs and PCs and our Macs broke down, crashed, etc. so much more frequently than the PCs,  I used to say "the only good thing about Macs is that you can run Digital Performer on them".

    I am not familiar with DP, but I am a big fan of MOTU sound cards. I just read today that after many years of being Mac exclusive, DP is now available for PC.

    So, for those of you who know, why is X2 better than DP? I'm no where near purchase mode, but I am looking to upgrade my PC system next year and I would really appreciate your constructive comparisons.

    Thanks!

    For notation and (to a lesser extent) video, DP (and most other DAWs) are decades ahead of Sonar which completely ignores these functions.  If you don't need notation or video Sonar is fine.

    I've been testing it out.  Ergonomically it's beautiful, the color options are large.  It's intuitive and easy to learn fairly quickly.  Sonar X2a is finally stable on my system.  They are similar programs.  In terms of notation, the only real problem with Sonar notation, I believe, is with the display of tied and dotted triplets and 64th notes and 32nd triplets.  They don't display properly, never did.  The good news is that the play back is accurate so it's more a graphic annoyance rather than anything that prevents composing and producing in the staff view.  But X2 has great features that some DAWs don't have, like the ability to rename controllers in the event list and the ability to have multiple staff views open at one time.  Those are great features for a composer who works the way I do.  DP for Windows is not stable on my system, it perpetually crashes on program exit, and I've tried numerous things, but my faith in X2a really went up last night when I played back a 300 measure sequence with 40 tracks and many, many controller and patch changes, meter changes and tempo changes and it played it back like a virtuoso without a glitch.
     
    I think MOTU will stablize it soon and it will also be a great DAW.  It's as easy to learn as Sonar in my opinion.
     
    JG
    www.ottavarecords.com
     
       
    post edited by jsg - 2013/05/08 13:25:53
    #6
    VariousArtist
    Max Output Level: -63 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1397
    • Joined: 2003/11/07 15:03:09
    • Location: London, UK & California, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 01:11:04 (permalink)
    As with many tools, there are things to like about one over another.  Nothing I've seen has made me want to pull away from Sonar, but I would like to see some more attention with the colour options as shown here:

    http://www.motu.com/products/software/dp/body.html#themes


    Underneath that screen there are a bunch of alternative themes.  For me it's not about pretty-ness, but rather the desire to have things stand out more clearly (to my eyes).  I know, it's back to the colour topic, but still, it's something that stood out for me on their product information.
    #7
    John
    Forum Host
    • Total Posts : 30467
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 01:33:21 (permalink)
    I did notice it uses small fonts. Its a powerful DAW and I am very glad it is now available for Windows.  However, I think it needs a little time to adjust to how we work in Windows. I am not impressed with this version. But I do think it could be a very strong competitor given time. 

    I like the way it looks but looks are deceiving. The way things are done in general seem more work then they should be. 

    Best
    John
    #8
    vintagevibe
    Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2446
    • Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
    • Location: Atlanta, Ga
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 02:06:17 (permalink)
    jsg
    In terms of notation, the only real problem with Sonar notation, I believe, is with the display of tied and dotted triplets and 64th notes and 32nd triplets.  They don't display properly, never did.  The good news is the play back accurately so it's more a graphic annoyance rather than anything that prevents composing in the staff view. 
     
    JG
    www.ottavarecords.com
     
       

    There are a host of showstopping deficiencies in the staff view.  Inability to correctly handle tuplets, incorrect enharmonics, bizarre default groupings that take huge amounts of time to correct... If the forum search worked you could find pages and pages of issues with staff view.  Sonar staff view in amateurish and barely usable for serious work compared to Cubase, DP, Logic and Protools.
    #9
    ...wicked
    Max Output Level: -1.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 7360
    • Joined: 2003/12/18 01:00:56
    • Location: Seattle
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 02:52:22 (permalink)
    DP has two amazing features that I've been wanting in SONAR for YEARS. 

    One: constantly centered NOW time. Yup, scrolling timeline. It's wonderful.
    Two: a record mode that is MIDI ON activated. So you click it, then as soon as you start playing it starts recording. Sublime for overdubs.

    ===========
    The Fog People
    ===========

    Intel i7-4790 
    16GB RAM
    ASUS Z97 
    Roland OctaCapture
    Win10/64   

    SONAR Platinum 64-bit    
    billions VSTs, some of which work    
    #10
    Chregg
    Max Output Level: -51.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2382
    • Joined: 2010/02/22 06:14:27
    • Location: Perth, Scotland
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 03:48:21 (permalink)
    ""the only good thing about Macs is that you can run Digital Performer on them". "I am not familiar with DP",,,, you are a bit of a troll, you got to admit. In fact if you are so curious, why don't you download the demo http://www.motu.com/products/software/dp/, such a simple thing to do, even for a troll ;)
    #11
    icontakt
    Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4266
    • Joined: 2012/03/04 08:18:02
    • Location: Tokyo
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 07:39:43 (permalink)
    Jimbo 88


    Sonar's Prochannel and other mixing features are by far better than DP8.  As is midi editing. 
      
    But a friend of mine who uses DP told me that it has a legato/overlap correction feature (move releases to the closest attack) and a delete double note feature (De-Flam), both of which I really want in Sonar. 


    Tak T.
     
    Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1
    Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1
    Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)
    Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRO
    DAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
    #12
    Tom Riggs
    Max Output Level: -57.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1752
    • Joined: 2003/11/08 22:47:26
    • Location: Displaced Kansan living in Philippines
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 07:43:12 (permalink)
    Sonar has a cal that will remove duplicates.

    i7-3770k OC at 4.5Ghz, asus p8z77-m, 16g g.skill aries 1600 c9 ram, Noctua d-14 cooler, RME HDSPe Raydat, Motu FastLane, Nvidea GTX 980 ti 6G, windows 7 and 8.1 pro x64. Sonar Platinum and x3e currently installed

    My Music 
    My YouTube
     
    #13
    icontakt
    Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4266
    • Joined: 2012/03/04 08:18:02
    • Location: Tokyo
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 07:55:27 (permalink)
    ...wicked


    DP has two amazing features that I've been wanting in SONAR for YEARS. 

    One: constantly centered NOW time. Yup, scrolling timeline. It's wonderful.
    Two: a record mode that is MIDI ON activated. So you click it, then as soon as you start playing it starts recording. Sublime for overdubs.

    1: There is a shortcut key assignable command called "Center View on Now Time," but as you may already know, you have to keep pressing the key.

    Tak T.
     
    Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1
    Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1
    Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)
    Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRO
    DAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
    #14
    Tom Riggs
    Max Output Level: -57.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1752
    • Joined: 2003/11/08 22:47:26
    • Location: Displaced Kansan living in Philippines
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 08:01:33 (permalink)
    You can also enable "allow midi recording without an armed track" in sonar midi preferences. this will record midi on the active track during playback as I understand it. Although I do not use it. Also when a midi record is enabled during record the midi clip will not be created until the first note is played.

    i7-3770k OC at 4.5Ghz, asus p8z77-m, 16g g.skill aries 1600 c9 ram, Noctua d-14 cooler, RME HDSPe Raydat, Motu FastLane, Nvidea GTX 980 ti 6G, windows 7 and 8.1 pro x64. Sonar Platinum and x3e currently installed

    My Music 
    My YouTube
     
    #15
    icontakt
    Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4266
    • Joined: 2012/03/04 08:18:02
    • Location: Tokyo
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 08:05:57 (permalink)
    Tom Riggs


    Sonar has a cal that will remove duplicates.

    Thanks! I also found a cal that does legato/overlap correction! (strangely, it doesn't work perfectly, though.)
    Is there a document that explains what all these cals do? The reference guide only talks about some cals.


    Tak T.
     
    Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1
    Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1
    Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)
    Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRO
    DAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
    #16
    icontakt
    Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4266
    • Joined: 2012/03/04 08:18:02
    • Location: Tokyo
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 08:07:47 (permalink)
    Tom Riggs


    You can also enable "allow midi recording without an armed track" in sonar midi preferences. this will record midi on the active track during playback as I understand it. Although I do not use it. Also when a midi record is enabled during record the midi clip will not be created until the first note is played.

    That's right. I use the option and like it very much. So I wondered why this MIDI ON feature is so desirable...

    Tak T.
     
    Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1
    Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1
    Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)
    Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRO
    DAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
    #17
    Tom Riggs
    Max Output Level: -57.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1752
    • Joined: 2003/11/08 22:47:26
    • Location: Displaced Kansan living in Philippines
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 08:11:27 (permalink)
    You may be able to find some old documentation on the sonar cal language with a google search. Her is one I found http://anythingpeaceful.org/sonar/cal.html

    i7-3770k OC at 4.5Ghz, asus p8z77-m, 16g g.skill aries 1600 c9 ram, Noctua d-14 cooler, RME HDSPe Raydat, Motu FastLane, Nvidea GTX 980 ti 6G, windows 7 and 8.1 pro x64. Sonar Platinum and x3e currently installed

    My Music 
    My YouTube
     
    #18
    scook
    Forum Host
    • Total Posts : 24146
    • Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
    • Location: TX
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 08:24:17 (permalink)
    there is a freeware CAL Editor from around 2004 that is still floating around the internet. It contains a fairly complete CAL reference in chm format.
    #19
    icontakt
    Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4266
    • Joined: 2012/03/04 08:18:02
    • Location: Tokyo
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 08:28:03 (permalink)
    Tom Riggs


    You may be able to find some old documentation on the sonar cal language with a google search. Her is one I found http://anythingpeaceful.org/sonar/cal.html

    Thanks for the link. I mentioned the legato and delete double note features in this forum before, and there were some posters like me who have been believing Sonar can't do these. I hope they'll read this thread, too. :)

    Tak T.
     
    Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1
    Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1
    Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)
    Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRO
    DAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
    #20
    jsg
    Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1079
    • Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
    • Location: San Francisco, California
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 13:35:50 (permalink)
    vintagevibe


    jsg
    In terms of notation, the only real problem with Sonar notation, I believe, is with the display of tied and dotted triplets and 64th notes and 32nd triplets.  They don't display properly, never did.  The good news is the play back accurately so it's more a graphic annoyance rather than anything that prevents composing in the staff view. 

    JG
    www.ottavarecords.com

      

    There are a host of showstopping deficiencies in the staff view.  Inability to correctly handle tuplets, incorrect enharmonics, bizarre default groupings that take huge amounts of time to correct... If the forum search worked you could find pages and pages of issues with staff view.  Sonar staff view in amateurish and barely usable for serious work compared to Cubase, DP, Logic and Protools.

    I've been working in the staff view since Cakewalk first introduced it and have produced 12 CDs with it, so I pretty much can say I know a lot about its deficits.  Incorrect harmonics is subjective, it depends upon whether you're working chromatically, but granted, they could be easier to change.  I detect that you expect the staff view to be a notation/printing aspect of Sonar, where I've always expected it to be only a MIDI input and editing tool.  All my scores are done in Sibelius after importing an SMF into it, which is where I clean up the notation and bring it up to professional standards.   As a midi inputing and editing tool, the staff view is not too bad, although DPs is better.  Cubase?  Not so sure, I worked with it for several weeks and found it very cumbersome, more options than Sonar, but also complicated in terms of getting the music to look right.  Oh, by the way, I just finished my 8th symphony and it is most definitely a "serious work"--all done in the staff view.  I'll let you be the judge on whether it is possible to do serious work in Sonar:  www.cdbaby.com/jerrygerber4
     
    JG
    www.jerrygerber.com
     
     
     
    #21
    stevec
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 11546
    • Joined: 2003/11/04 15:05:54
    • Location: Parkesburg, PA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 14:28:16 (permalink)
    Nice work, Jerry.   I listened through all of the previews and it's obvious that A) You've spent some time on this, and B) SONAR's staff view hasn't held you back.
     
    I'll let you be the judge on whether it is possible to do serious work in Sonar

     
    Aye... but which version?   
     
     
    I've been curious to try DP for a long time, but the impressions given so far in this thread have steered me away from tryimg out the demo.   Maybe some day...  
     

    SteveC
    https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163
     
    SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors;
    Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO);
    Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
     
    #22
    pbognar
    Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 720
    • Joined: 2005/10/03 16:22:03
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 14:51:10 (permalink)
    jsg


    vintagevibe


    jsg
    In terms of notation, the only real problem with Sonar notation, I believe, is with the display of tied and dotted triplets and 64th notes and 32nd triplets.  They don't display properly, never did.  The good news is the play back accurately so it's more a graphic annoyance rather than anything that prevents composing in the staff view. 

    JG
    www.ottavarecords.com

      

    There are a host of showstopping deficiencies in the staff view.  Inability to correctly handle tuplets, incorrect enharmonics, bizarre default groupings that take huge amounts of time to correct... If the forum search worked you could find pages and pages of issues with staff view.  Sonar staff view in amateurish and barely usable for serious work compared to Cubase, DP, Logic and Protools.

    I've been working in the staff view since Cakewalk first introduced it and have produced 12 CDs with it, so I pretty much can say I know a lot about its deficits.  Incorrect harmonics is subjective, it depends upon whether you're working chromatically, but granted, they could be easier to change.  I detect that you expect the staff view to be a notation/printing aspect of Sonar, where I've always expected it to be only a MIDI input and editing tool.  All my scores are done in Sibelius after importing an SMF into it, which is where I clean up the notation and bring it up to professional standards.   As a midi inputing and editing tool, the staff view is not too bad, although DPs is better.  Cubase?  Not so sure, I worked with it for several weeks and found it very cumbersome, more options than Sonar, but also complicated in terms of getting the music to look right.  Oh, by the way, I just finished my 8th symphony and it is most definitely a "serious work"--all done in the staff view.  I'll let you be the judge on whether it is possible to do serious work in Sonar:  www.cdbaby.com/jerrygerber4
     
    JG
    www.jerrygerber.com
     
     
     
    @jsg - sounds like you've moved from Sonar 7.0.2 to X2a based on your post above.
     
    Any tips/advise for inputting and editing MIDI data in the X2a staff view?
    #23
    jsg
    Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1079
    • Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
    • Location: San Francisco, California
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 17:43:17 (permalink)
    stevec


    Nice work, Jerry.   I listened through all of the previews and it's obvious that A) You've spent some time on this, and B) SONAR's staff view hasn't held you back.
     

    I'll let you be the judge on whether it is possible to do serious work in Sonar

     
    Aye... but which version?   
     
     
    I've been curious to try DP for a long time, but the impressions given so far in this thread have steered me away from tryimg out the demo.   Maybe some day...  
     
    I've used Sonar 7 for over 5 years.  I recently installed x2a on my DAW and it seems to be quite stable.  It turns out that using hot-keys for notes (q for quarter, s for sixteenth, ctrl-e for eighth, etc.) is actually faster than picking the notes with a mouse as in previous versions.  If I could get DP8 for Windows to work properly I'd get it and learn it, but it crashes on exit every time. 
     
    If Cakewalk would either reinstate the color options, or just get rid of all the color options that don't work and fix bugs rather than add more plugins, I'd no doubt stay with Sonar, after nearly getting divorced after 22 years with Cakewalk.  Honestly, there is not a whole lot of difference between X2 and DP8.  Sonar has some better features, DP8 has some better features.  I suppose it comes down to one's working method and how stable the application is.  There's nothing I cannot do on one that I could do on another.  DP8's staff view displays 64th notes, tied and dotted triplets and 32nd note triplets correctly (some assumptions here), and that is really attractive to me.  But if the program crashes, that's the end of that...
     
    JG
    www.jerrygerber.com
    #24
    jsg
    Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1079
    • Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
    • Location: San Francisco, California
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 17:51:19 (permalink)
    pbognar


    jsg


    vintagevibe


    jsg
    In terms of notation, the only real problem with Sonar notation, I believe, is with the display of tied and dotted triplets and 64th notes and 32nd triplets.  They don't display properly, never did.  The good news is the play back accurately so it's more a graphic annoyance rather than anything that prevents composing in the staff view. 

    JG
    www.ottavarecords.com

      

    There are a host of showstopping deficiencies in the staff view.  Inability to correctly handle tuplets, incorrect enharmonics, bizarre default groupings that take huge amounts of time to correct... If the forum search worked you could find pages and pages of issues with staff view.  Sonar staff view in amateurish and barely usable for serious work compared to Cubase, DP, Logic and Protools.

    I've been working in the staff view since Cakewalk first introduced it and have produced 12 CDs with it, so I pretty much can say I know a lot about its deficits.  Incorrect harmonics is subjective, it depends upon whether you're working chromatically, but granted, they could be easier to change.  I detect that you expect the staff view to be a notation/printing aspect of Sonar, where I've always expected it to be only a MIDI input and editing tool.  All my scores are done in Sibelius after importing an SMF into it, which is where I clean up the notation and bring it up to professional standards.   As a midi inputing and editing tool, the staff view is not too bad, although DPs is better.  Cubase?  Not so sure, I worked with it for several weeks and found it very cumbersome, more options than Sonar, but also complicated in terms of getting the music to look right.  Oh, by the way, I just finished my 8th symphony and it is most definitely a "serious work"--all done in the staff view.  I'll let you be the judge on whether it is possible to do serious work in Sonar:  www.cdbaby.com/jerrygerber4
     
    JG
    www.jerrygerber.com
     
     
     
    @jsg - sounds like you've moved from Sonar 7.0.2 to X2a based on your post above.
     
    Any tips/advise for inputting and editing MIDI data in the X2a staff view?
    Yeah, setup keybindings for your notes:
     
    w = whole
    q = quarter
    e = eighth
    s = sixteenth
    t = thirtysecond
     
    All the above with CTRL (CTRL-e for example) for dotted notes
    All of the above with ALT (ALT-s for example) for triplets
     
    Also, keep checked the last option on the note select menu that says "last touched".  This allows you to quickly select a note value in the staff view by clicking on a note that has the value you need. 
     
    You'll be able to input very quickly if you do this.  Also, one great Sonar feature is that you can have multiple staff view window, docked or undocked, open at the same time.  For some composers, like myself, that is very useful.  Many DAWS do not have this ability to lock windows. 
     
    One more tip:  Don't dock the event list.  If you do, the mouse freezes when moving across the data, particularly the "EVENT" (note, controller, patch, etc.) parameter.  Instead, keep it floating and you will avoid this issue. 
    #25
    stevec
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 11546
    • Joined: 2003/11/04 15:05:54
    • Location: Parkesburg, PA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 19:21:55 (permalink)
    w = whole q = quarter e = eighth s = sixteenth t = thirtysecond All the above with CTRL (CTRL-e for example) for dotted notes All of the above with ALT (ALT-s for example) for triplets

     
    I may even try the SV again...   
     
    Thanks for the suggestion

    SteveC
    https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163
     
    SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors;
    Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO);
    Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
     
    #26
    vintagevibe
    Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2446
    • Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
    • Location: Atlanta, Ga
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/08 23:51:29 (permalink)
    jsg



    I've been working in the staff view since Cakewalk first introduced it and have produced 12 CDs with it, so I pretty much can say I know a lot about its deficits.  Incorrect harmonics is subjective, it depends upon whether you're working chromatically, but granted, they could be easier to change.  I detect that you expect the staff view to be a notation/printing aspect of Sonar, where I've always expected it to be only a MIDI input and editing tool.  All my scores are done in Sibelius after importing an SMF into it, which is where I clean up the notation and bring it up to professional standards.   As a midi inputing and editing tool, the staff view is not too bad, although DPs is better.  Cubase?  Not so sure, I worked with it for several weeks and found it very cumbersome, more options than Sonar, but also complicated in terms of getting the music to look right.  Oh, by the way, I just finished my 8th symphony and it is most definitely a "serious work"--all done in the staff view.  I'll let you be the judge on whether it is possible to do serious work in Sonar:  www.cdbaby.com/jerrygerber4
     
    JG
    www.jerrygerber.com
     
     
     
    You suspect wrongly.  I use Sibelius for what it was designed for but I need competent notation to compose inside Sonar on par with it's competition.  If you think it is on par with Cubase, DP, Logic or Protools your don't know anything about those programs.  I'm happy for you that you can compose in the Sonar staff view.  A hole can be dug with a spoon but I prefer a shovel.   Sonar's notation is not on a professional level for a modern DAW.  If you are happy with that fine but it is foolish to try to argue that it is.

    #27
    jsg
    Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1079
    • Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
    • Location: San Francisco, California
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/09 01:21:57 (permalink)
    vintagevibe


    jsg



    I've been working in the staff view since Cakewalk first introduced it and have produced 12 CDs with it, so I pretty much can say I know a lot about its deficits.  Incorrect harmonics is subjective, it depends upon whether you're working chromatically, but granted, they could be easier to change.  I detect that you expect the staff view to be a notation/printing aspect of Sonar, where I've always expected it to be only a MIDI input and editing tool.  All my scores are done in Sibelius after importing an SMF into it, which is where I clean up the notation and bring it up to professional standards.   As a midi inputing and editing tool, the staff view is not too bad, although DPs is better.  Cubase?  Not so sure, I worked with it for several weeks and found it very cumbersome, more options than Sonar, but also complicated in terms of getting the music to look right.  Oh, by the way, I just finished my 8th symphony and it is most definitely a "serious work"--all done in the staff view.  I'll let you be the judge on whether it is possible to do serious work in Sonar:  www.cdbaby.com/jerrygerber4

    JG
    www.jerrygerber.com



    You suspect wrongly.  I use Sibelius for what it was designed for but I need competent notation to compose inside Sonar on par with it's competition.  If you think it is on par with Cubase, DP, Logic or Protools your don't know anything about those programs.  I'm happy for you that you can compose in the Sonar staff view.  A hole can be dug with a spoon but I prefer a shovel.   Sonar's notation is not on a professional level for a modern DAW.  If you are happy with that fine but it is foolish to try to argue that it is.
     
    There are not too many "modern DAWs" with notation in the first place:  There's Cubase, Logic, Pro Tools, Sonar and Digital Performer.  That's it.  You make it sound like there are gobs of DAWS out there, all with great notation.  DP's notation seems better than Sonar's but I can't get it to not crash on my system so Sonar's staff view is better than none.  When you're composing for 40 instruments and writing 900 measure pieces a simple staff view that doesn't try to be a professional notation program works for me so I can focus on composition rather than trying to create a performance-level score before I've even produced my work. 
     
    What exactly can you do, in terms of MIDI editing and MIDI playback in Cubase that you cannot do in Sonar?   Give specific examples please--If you want to be right, or at least be perceived as being right, then please back up your assertion with facts and examples.  No need to mention display of tied and dotted triplets, or display of 32nd triplets or 64th notes.  Everyone knows Sonar's weakness in that area (I still write with those values of course because Sonar plays it back accurately so it doesn't limit my musical imagination). 
     
    p.s.  I went to your website Dean and it's infected with a Trojan Virus, not kidding.  Lucky for me, my anti-virus software caught it and blocked it.  Thought you'd want to know...
     
    JG
    www.jerrygerber.com/beyondthemidimockup.htm
     
     
    #28
    Resonant Order
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 647
    • Joined: 2003/12/02 13:45:33
    • Location: Austin, Texas
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/09 02:19:50 (permalink)
    Steinberg recently hired the originators of Sibelius to create a new notation program that would work alongside their current products. Sounds like someone is taking notation seriously.

    http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/keeping-score-spreadbury-speaks-on-sibelius-team-transition/

    "After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." Music at Night, 1931- Aldous Huxley
    #29
    backwoods
    Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2571
    • Joined: 2011/03/23 17:24:50
    • Location: South Pacific
    • Status: offline
    Re:Digital Performer is Now Available for Windows. Big Deal? 2013/05/09 02:34:11 (permalink)
    Yamaha own Steinberg and have strong classical music connections.

     
    #30
    Page: 12 > Showing page 1 of 2
    Jump to:
    © 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1