Sylvan
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[Solved + Workaround Available] Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
Can anyone reproduce this? http://youtu.be/gBkqV1F0dzI
post edited by Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk] - 2015/01/20 12:14:27
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mudgel
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 04:30:03
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I've just had a listen but can't make it happen.
this is just opening a new project no issue. I opened up a project saved previously in X3e and just did as you ie spoke a count to 4 x 2 times then repeated the procedure to get a 2nd vocal track. no problem on render.
Don't know what to suggest. I'll see what I can come up with.
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Sylvan
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 04:51:46
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Thanks. I am glad it is working for you. That is actually good news. I'll see what I can do as well. Maybe a setting with my setup or something?
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Sylvan
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 05:10:24
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I tried changing buffers and all that. It did not help. I changed both in SONAR and in my driver, nothing. I am using a RME FireFace UFX with the latest ASIO driver.
Craig suggested updating drivers on my computer, especially graphic drivers. This was on another matter, but it might be something worth trying for this as well. I think I will give that a shot.
I went to try out Vocal Sync again, with both new and old projects and I am consistently getting the same problem no matter what I do,
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Sylvan
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 05:29:44
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I just updated my graphics drivers to the latest version using SlimDrivers from cnet.com. I tested the VocalSync again and there is no change, still creating artifacts.
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mudgel
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 05:57:15
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It's 9:45 pm here. I'll try tomorrow either to be able to duplicate your problems or absolutely assure that I don't have a problem.
Even though I'm showing a UFX in my signature it's away getting a mod so I can hook up the Advanced Remote.
I'm using a StudioLive 2442 as per my signature. I can only sample upto 48kHz.
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CoteRotie
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 14:10:54
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Hi Charles,
Since we both had the same problem with Melodyne I gave this a try too.
I can confirm this, I get the exact same artifacts when I render the vocal sync track. I wonder if the two issues are related.
Thanks for catching this,
John
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bapu
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 14:13:49
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Noel says he's been able to replicate the Melodyne issue and since VocalSync and Melodyne are both ARA dependent I would believe they are related.
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Sylvan
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 14:25:52
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Thanks John. So maybe it's not just my system. I do think they are related as well.
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CoteRotie
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 14:28:53
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bapu
Noel says he's been able to replicate the Melodyne issue and since VocalSync and Melodyne are both ARA dependent I would believe they are related.
Thanks, Bapu, where did Noel say he was able to repro the Melodyne issue? I didn't see that in the thread I started about the issue, is there another thread that I missed? (Or do you have a bat-phone connection to Cakewalk HQ?) Regards, John
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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 14:36:36
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CoteRotie
bapu
Noel says he's been able to replicate the Melodyne issue and since VocalSync and Melodyne are both ARA dependent I would believe they are related.
Thanks, Bapu, where did Noel say he was able to repro the Melodyne issue? I didn't see that in the thread I started about the issue, is there another thread that I missed? (Or do you have a bat-phone connection to Cakewalk HQ?)
Regards,
John
I couldn't find the other thread where he said that but, we're aware of the Melodyne issue and working on a fix. I'm digging into the VocalSync issue right now. Thank you for such a clear video Sylvan!
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Sylvan
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 15:15:19
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Thank you Seth, you guys are great! I can't believe the level of attention Cakewalk customers receive. I couldn't imagine getting this level of service anywhere else. I am all in with Cakewalk and SONAR. Thank you.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 18:07:15
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☄ Helpfulby musicroom 2015/01/27 15:00:37
Hi Sylvan, Seth was able to replicate the VocalSync issue. Believe it or not it doesn't like your voice :-P When you render vocalsync it is using time stretching to align the vocals and the default algorithm being used to render the time stretches is the Izotope radius vocal stretching. It works pretty well but it doesn't seem to do a good job on Baritone voices like yours. Seth did a bass voice test and got similar artifacts. Fortunately there is a way to change the default offline render algorithm in aud.ini. Please try out the following combinations and let me know how it works out. For a bass voice #6 should work fine. The VocalSync stretch modes are stored in aud.ini. The specific variables for VocalSync are: DefaultVocalSyncOfflineStretchMethod DefaultVocalSyncOnlineStretchMethod These can be set to one of the values below. Don't set the online method to the expensive types or it will glitch. The legal values are: 1, Groove Clip Stretching 2, Izotope Radius Low Quality (faster - currently not used) 3, Izotope Radius Normal Mix Quality 4, Izotope Radius for Solo Material 5, ReCycle-style 6, Izotope Radius for Solo Material for bass 7, Izotope Radius for Solo Material for vocals and higher-pitched material 8, Indicates that offline mode should match the online mode 9, Izotope Radius Mix Advanced 10 SOLA stretching (experimental) eg: DefaultVocalSyncOfflineStretchMethod=7 selects Radius Solo Vocal (which is the default) NOTE: To change this go to Preferences | Configuration file and edit the value there and save it. Then you must click Reload configuration to load the settings in SONAR. Please also note that the change will NOT apply to clips that have already been vocalsynced, only to new vocal sync clips. To make it apply to an existing VS clip, first remove vocal sync and then Vocal Sync it again and then render.
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - 2015/01/19 19:14:40
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scook
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 18:13:53
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DefaultVocalSyncOfflineStretchMethod
DefaultVocalSyncOnlineStretchMethod
are not documented.
I am filing this away for future reference
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CoteRotie
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 19:06:23
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I tried DefaultVocalSyncOfflineStretchMethod = 6 and DefaultVocalSyncOfflineStretchMethod = 8 and even though the latter should give the same result as before rendering (I'm guessing?) I still get artifacts after rendering that are not there before rendering.
They don't sound the same as they did with the previous setting, but they are still there.
Will be interesting to see if anybody else gets the same or better results.
John
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 19:15:59
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NOTE: To change this go to Preferences | Configuration file and edit the value there and save it. Then you must click Reload configuration to load the settings in SONAR. Please also note that the change will NOT apply to clips that have already been vocalsynced, only to new vocal sync clips. To make it apply to an existing VS clip, first remove vocal sync and then Vocal Sync it again and then render.
I updated my original post with this. For a baritone speaking voice we didnt get artifacts with the bass version. In a future update we may consider adding the stretch modes to the UI. The default works well for most normal cases.
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gustabo
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 19:16:33
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CoteRotie,
Then shouldn't it be:
DefaultVocalSyncOfflineStretchMethod = 8
DefaultVocalSyncOnlineStretchMethod = 6
?
edit: never mind, different suggestion offered by Noel
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 19:18:18
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I dont recommend changing the online method.
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CoteRotie
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 19:23:33
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@Noel, I edited the Aud.ini file, saved it, reloaded it with the reload button and tried again, exactly as you suggest. I even quit SONAR and restarted and still had the artifacts. Each time I got the artifacts I just hit "undo" to restore the clip to the original not rendered state before trying the Aud.ini edits again.
@gustabo- Since the online stretch method doesn't give artifacts (and my understanding is that this is the method used to audition the audio prior to rendering, correct me if that's not true) I left that alone. I changed the offline rendering method to the bass method and still had artifacts. So at that point I changed it to be equal to the online rendering method which shouldn't result in artifacts as I don't hear them while auditioning the clip prior to rendering.
That's my thinking, if I'm wrong about any of that let me know ;)
Thanks,
John
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 19:59:35
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Did you actually remove vocalsync? You must REMOVE the region effect itself and then add it back before the new render mode will be used. Try it on a fresh project to be sure. It definitely worked here with stretch mode 6 on similar material to what Charles used.
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Sylvan
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 20:10:09
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Hey guys,
I made the adjustment and it indeed has worked. It sounds much better. If stretching too much I do get some other artifacts with the "ess" sound, but that is to be expected as normal. I wonder if doing some de-essing would help that. I will try it later.
But thank you! That was what it needed. I am really feeling spoiled with such quick attention to these issues. Seth, Noel, and the whole team.
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CoteRotie
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 20:18:52
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Did you actually remove vocalsync? You must REMOVE the region effect itself and then add it back before the new render mode will be used. Try it on a fresh project to be sure. It definitely worked here with stretch mode 6 on similar material to what Charles used.
Ah, I see, I didn't remove vocalsync, I just hit undo to undo the render. I'll try again.
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CoteRotie
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 20:23:47
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OK, after removing vocalsync and trying again I do get the improved results.
Thanks, Noel!
Would it be possible to add some radio buttons or something like that to the vocalsync editor gui to select the algorithm so we don't have to edit the Aud.ini file for different voices? Or maybe you already have better ideas to deal with this.... :)
John
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Splat 
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 20:41:06
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+1 for UI enhancement cheers
..
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mudgel
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 20:56:01
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wow! so much can happen when the other end of the world while you're sleeping. I've come back to confirm Sylvan's Vocalsync issue and meanwhile a fix has already been uncovered. thanks very much Cakewalk. Now to give it a try.
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mudgel
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 21:07:20
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such a quick fix. it will be a bit of a pain though to go into config fies all the time to select different algorithms for different material. Are Cakewalk going to work on a way to give us ready access to these setting outside of the config file?
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 21:11:55
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As I said in my post "In a future update we may consider adding the stretch modes to the UI"
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mixmkr
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 21:20:52
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I loved Boston when I lived there. So much positive energy seems to happen there. Thanks Cakers.
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mudgel
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 21:20:54
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Thanks Noel, I missed reading it earlier.
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Anderton
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Re: Getting artifacts when rendering from VocalSync
2015/01/19 22:01:04
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Sylvan
Hey guys,
I made the adjustment and it indeed has worked. It sounds much better. The good news: you have a "radio voice." The bad news: you have a "radio voice." But thank you! That was what it needed. I am really feeling spoiled with such quick attention to these issues. Seth, Noel, and the whole team.
They have been incredibly responsive to everything I've thrown at them as well. You might as well just accept getting used to feeling spoiled since you're providing videos and detailed reports. It makes life much easier for them to track down and eliminate issues. A little inside baseball...on Sunday, Noel generated four test files to test Melodyne fixes. Around midnight Boston time he posted #4, I tested, and could confirm that it worked. It also tightened up audio in some other respects. Pretty cool. He is also an OUTSTANDING jazz guitar player.
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