Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File

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DHorrell
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2015/08/24 16:16:42 (permalink)

Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File

Hi all. I have a Roland SD-50 and Sonar LE (version 8.5.1.17) running on Windows Vista (32-bit).
 
I would like to use Sonar LE to play a MIDI file on the SD-50, and record the resulting sound on my PC as a wav/mp3 etc. (I am hoping that I will get a more realistic sound from the SD-50 than from my laptop's sound card.)

So I have started Sonar LE, loaded a project which contains a MIDI track, set the track's output to the SD-50 and checked that it plays OK through the SD-50.
Next I created an audio track in Sonar LE and set it's input to the SD-50 "Stereo In". It is armed for recording too.
On the SD-50, I set "TG to computer" to on. (What does TG mean?)
 
When I try to play or record, all I hear is the initial note from my MIDI file & it just holds that note forever. Nothing gets recorded.
 
Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong?
Or is this not possible - do I need to connect the SD-50 line out to the line in on my laptop's soundcard and use that to record the sound from the SD-50?
 
Thanks
Don.
#1

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    DHorrell
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/26 14:08:23 (permalink)
    So... any info yet...?
    #2
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/26 14:43:14 (permalink)
    To lazy to look up the manual for the SD 50 but is the connection a USB or MIDI din plug?
     
    If USB I doubt it sends audio so you will need an audio conection. 

    Johnny V  
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    #3
    DHorrell
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/27 13:01:11 (permalink)
    Well, I have read the manual, and there is a setting "TG to Computer" which sends the audio signal of the SD50 to the computer. Unfortunately there's no info on what it all means in practical terms and whether it does what I would like.
    FYI the SD50 has both MIDI and USB and I am using the USB at the moment. I don't think audio comes through the MIDI.
     
    #4
    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/27 13:53:00 (permalink)
    DHorrell
    Hi all. I have a Roland SD-50 and Sonar LE (version 8.5.1.17) running on Windows Vista (32-bit).
     
    I would like to use Sonar LE to play a MIDI file on the SD-50, and record the resulting sound on my PC as a wav/mp3 etc. (I am hoping that I will get a more realistic sound from the SD-50 than from my laptop's sound card.)

    So I have started Sonar LE, loaded a project which contains a MIDI track, set the track's output to the SD-50 and checked that it plays OK through the SD-50.
    Next I created an audio track in Sonar LE and set it's input to the SD-50 "Stereo In". It is armed for recording too.
    On the SD-50, I set "TG to computer" to on. (What does TG mean?)
     
    When I try to play or record, all I hear is the initial note from my MIDI file & it just holds that note forever. Nothing gets recorded.
     
    Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong?
    Or is this not possible - do I need to connect the SD-50 line out to the line in on my laptop's soundcard and use that to record the sound from the SD-50?
     
    Thanks
    Don.




    You're right, MIDI-connection doesn't transmit audio, but it's also more like a rule that the USB of synths doesn't transmit it either, even though it's possible and there are exceptions.
     
    It is the output of the SD that you need to record.
    That's why I found this "I created an audio track in Sonar LE and set it's input to the SD-50 "Stereo In"
    a little confusing. I'm not sure I understood it correctly.
    What have you used to produce the sound otherwise? The MS Wavetable synth? That is not a good one, and it can't even be bounced to tracks as normal soft synths. Does LE include TTS-1 soft synth? If so, that's already much better.
     
    There are lots of cheap or free soft synths around which offer tons of sounds of quite high quality. They are worth testing. If you can get a copy of Computer Music magazine the included CM plugin collection offers some very nice synths, not to mention the effect collection.
     
    Then again, if you're used to create sounds with your Roland it's a bit frustrating to start seeking for "covers" in the jungle of hundreds of soft synths. It should be possible to record the SD properly. Then again, if you are using the laptops internal soundchip leading the SD audio in, the analogue-to-digital converters are not that good, and have some negative effect on the sound quality, whereas softsynths work totally in the digital side and the soundchip has no effect on the actual sound except for the sound you monitor. Well...that sounds paradoxal... I ,mean when the MIDI soft synth track is  bounced to audio, it's done by the processor, the sound chip has no role in the process.

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    The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
    #5
    joakes
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/27 14:25:25 (permalink)
    The output from the SD will only be as good as the audio you get from your audio device, because you have to route it through the audio device.
     
    If the SD 50 is similar in architecture to the SD 20, which I have, its a midi generator and can, within its own editor (or via audio out sockets) generate audio sound. For SONAR you'd need a soft synth.
     
    Within Sonar, once you've installed the drivers, you can choose the SD20/50 as the midi sound generator - in other words route a soft synth through it, and then on outpût it to your sound device. You'll need an input device (i use a PCR 800 USB) either a keyboard or PRV in Sonar, not by note. Its complicated to set up but once done it works ok.
     
    BUT, at the end of the day, I find I really don't need the SD20 bit, as the Sonar soft synths can replace it if you use a midi keyboard .....
     
    BTW, on the SD20 there is a Midi through (to use with a keyboard controller for example) and a stereo audio output (two cinch sockets) which are capable of taking audio to an audio device.
     
    All this without actually doing any research on the SD 50 ......
     
    Përsonally I think to invest in a midi keyboard/controller makes more sense than using my SD 20 in todays DAW world. I rarely light it up.
     
    Cheers,
    Jerry

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    #6
    scook
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/27 14:33:34 (permalink)
    DHorrell
    On the SD-50, I set "TG to computer" to on. (What does TG mean?)

    My guess is Tone Generator.
     
    I found a few threads about the device using Google and the search string "site:forum.cakewalk.com SD-50" which lead me to the manual. Without the device in hand, I don't think I will be much help. You might want to try Roland tech support.
    #7
    DHorrell
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/27 15:26:36 (permalink)
    Let's get back to basics...
    I have a MIDI file which has a variety of General MIDI instruments. I'm hoping that the SD50 converts MIDI to digital audio with higher quality than my laptop does.
    So, I used SONAR LE to play the MIDI file through the SD50 and some speakers. 
    Easy!
     
    BUT, I want to record the digital audio output from the SD50 into an MP3 or WAV file.
    I could take the analogue output from the SD50 and feed it to my Laptop's input and re-digitise it into an MP3 (or WAV etc.) file. However, that means the digital audio from the SD50 has been converted to analogue (by the SD50), then back to digital (by my laptop with probably not high quality digital to analogue convertor). Not great!
     
    Can I just take the digital audio from the SD50 and write it to disk as an MP3/WAV somehow?
    [Your suggestion of TG = Tone Generator is probably right.]
    I attempted to do all this by using SONAR LE to play the MIDI file through the SD50 and simultaneously recording the SD50 input. Not working though, so I need another plan.
     
     
    Thanks
    All.
    #8
    scook
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/27 15:46:02 (permalink)
    DHorrell
     
    Can I just take the digital audio from the SD50 and write it to disk as an MP3/WAV somehow?
     

    It is going to take a piece of software to capture and write the data to disk. Windows will not record directly from the USB port. SONAR LE would normally serve that function but anything that sees the SD-50 driver should work.
    #9
    DHorrell
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/27 15:54:47 (permalink)
    Ok - I tried that, but SONAR does not seem to be able to play the MIDI to the SD50 and record from the SD50 at the same time. Any suggestions?
    #10
    DHorrell
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/27 16:11:08 (permalink)
    ... Or do I need to setup Windows Media Player to play MIDI to the SD50 & then use SONAR to record from the SD50?
    Back to the manual...!
    #11
    joakes
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/27 16:40:26 (permalink)
    OK, just downloaded the manual so it seems you got some choices :
     
    The good news :
     
    1) you can run a line out stereo via the cinch plugs on your SD50 into your sound card/audio device. BUT you'll need some form of input device (keyboard, drum machine, whatever.... because here you are dealing with pure audio, not midi. So, If thats how you do it, go direct to the bad news :
    or
    2) you can run : a midi keyboard into the "Midi In" socket on the SD 50,  then from the SD 50 "Midi Out" into your PC audio device's "Midi in" socket (if your audio device has one). However, you'll need some form of input (keyboard, PV in Sonar etc) or if you already have the midi data, just import it into the midi track Sonar created.
    or
    3) Use a USB midi keyboard (into your PC) and the SD50 USB connection (into your PC). In Sonar you'll need to insert a soft synth (one midi track will suffice). Set the midi keyboard as the input on the midi Track (or if you already have the midi data, just copy it into said midi track of the soft synth). In theory the output of the Midi track should output into the audio part and then into the SD 50. Yes, its tricky to set up but it used to work for me with my SD20.
     
    The bad news (because you mentionned laptop) :
     
    Whatever you decide, the eventual sound will only be as good as the audio device (and speakers) used for the playback. In other words and sorry to say this, but if you have a crap sound card, and crap speakers, then your sound is gonna be .... well crap. The SD 50 cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear as good as it is !!!
     
    Salvation : Sonar can of course cope take all this in its stride, via a Midi keyboard input to its soft synths where you can get whatever sound you need, BUT, if your audio device/speakers aren't great then the sound ......
     
    I gave up using my PCR 800 through the SD 20 (basically a minor Edirol version of what you have), because Sonar's soft synths can do wonders and are much more flexible.
     
    Your choice !
     
    But maybe I'm wrong about what you are trying to do. Sorry if thats the case.
     
    Cheers,
    Jerry
     
     Edit : attrocious, nay shameful, spelling and grammer
    post edited by joakes - 2015/09/27 17:07:06

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    #12
    DHorrell
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/27 17:23:46 (permalink)
    Thanks for taking the time to respond Jerry.
    However, I don't think you are understanding the issue.
    I want the SD50 to convert a MIDI file into audio and then somehow record the audio stream that the SD50 produces, digitally. I assume that the SD50 does a better job of converting MIDI to audio than my laptop.
     
    There's no MIDI keyboard involved, no synths, ideally I want to avoid recording the analogue output from the SD50 & keep it all digital.
    The MIDI file contains a wide variety of instruments, but all are in the GM spec.
     
    Thanks
    #13
    DHorrell
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/28 15:54:15 (permalink)
    I setup Windows Media Player to use the SD50 for output & when I use WMP to play a MIDI file, the sound comes out of the speakers connected to the SD50 OK. The "TG to Computer" setting is ON.
    However, I cannot get Sonar to record the audio from the SD50 - it's just silent.
     
    Finally I used some Java code (yes, my day job is programming Java) to play a MIDI file to the SD50 & now Sonar can record an audio track from the SD-50. With "TG to Computer" set to OFF, the recording is silent, but with it set to ON, Sonar can record. 
    Therefore I think that is a solution to the issue, but perhaps only one for nerds like me. The rest of you will have to come up with another solution.
    #14
    rabeach
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/28 19:18:50 (permalink)
    The manual for this device is unclear whether both audio and midi can be sent over the usb simultaneously. You will need to contact Roland.  It does appear from the manual that you can though use a third party midi interface and send your midi out from sonar into the SD-50 using a 5-pin midi cable and receive the audio over usb into sonar to record. 
    #15
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/28 21:15:21 (permalink)
    All in all, really what you should do is upgrade to a better version on Sonar and use soft synths. Your doing it the hard way.  
    Then your task is very straight forward, I make my own Wave and MP3  backing tracks with Sonar and use either my own midi files or edited downloaded files. I've been at it for a long time now.  
    The sound from the Roland SD series is not going to be near as good as sound you can get using the better quailty soft synths.  Trust me.
     
    But speaking of better quality: 
    To bad LE comes with sub standard soft synths as it does little to sell new users on Sonar. I just installed it on an XP laptop because you can't install X3 or Platinum on XP.  
    I was supprised it doesn't even have a GM multi channel synth like the TTS-1. The drums are GM alright. I forgot how nasty those can be once you get used to Session Drummer and now AD drums. 
    It's actually a terrible version of Sonar, I've used many but had never bothered to use this one. I got it free with a Roland Keyboard. I already had Sonar 8.5. But I used it to upgrade to Sonar X3 studio.  It's missing lots of features we get with the full versions. Lots of short cuts are missing. 
    You could go for Artist which I'm sure comes with TTS-1. 
    Then it's a 2 minute operation to open the file, point the tracks at TTS-1 and export the song. 
     
    Professional comes with a lot of great drums and synths, more than your going to need. And there are many free 3rd party plug ins from sites like KVR. 
    post edited by Cactus Music - 2015/09/28 21:31:17

    Johnny V  
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    #16
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/28 22:39:16 (permalink)
    Maybe I am missing something (I did read the first 10 or so posts but then sort of quick scanned to the bottom).
     
    If you already have the midi file in a Sonar track, and you have the midi output of that midi track set to point to your external keyboard, then it is not RECORD that you want to do, you simply want to BOUNCE the midi file, which will play the midi data -which will be sent to your external keyboard, and if you have the audio outputs of your external keyboard plugged into your audio interface, set INPUT of 1 stereo audio track or two mono audio tracks in Sonar to pick up the audio output from your keyboard.
     
    How are you connecting your audio output(s) from your external keyboard to your computer?
     
    Bob Bone
     

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    #17
    jimfogle
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/09/29 17:22:07 (permalink)
    You CAN NOT record SD-50 digital audio.  You will have to record SD-50 ANALOG audio.  Cakewalk will not recognize digital audio and midi from the same interface.

    Jim F
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    #18
    DHorrell
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    Re: Using SD-50 to Convert MIDI File to Sound File 2015/10/02 14:45:44 (permalink)
    Just to repeat, there is NO MIDI KEYBOARD!
    I now have a solution that works for me, but thanks for all your suggestions.
     
    There was a suggestion that a software synth would be better quality. Have you a suggestion that covers ALL the GM MIDI instruments, including steel pans? How much does it cost, or is it free?
     
     
    Cheers
    Don.
    #19
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