jimlau
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Sound Card Needed?
My current computer has the Intel i7 6700K, 16GB 3200 RAM, and the MSI Z170A Gaming M3. Will I need a audio card?
For my old computer I used a basic Sound Blaster Live audio card and Cakewalk X3 worked well. I've been told my new set-up works at least as well as is compared to the previous 1 with the SB Live card.
Thanks.
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Slugbaby
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/13 09:58:24
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Soundblasters have a pretty bad reputation around here...
'Need' is a strong word, but you'll have much better results with an audio card (or more likely an audio INTERFACE). What you should get will depend on what you want to send into the computer. For me, the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 is nearly perfect. I should have gotten the Scarlett 2i4 - the same model but with MIDI inputs. This is great for sending one or two lines into the PC (separate guitar & vocals, for ex).
There are lots of brands, price-points, and opinions. the only universal opinion seems to be to NOT use the Realtek audio chip that's embedded in most computers.
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jimlau
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/13 10:01:53
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Slugbaby
Soundblasters have a pretty bad reputation around here...
'Need' is a strong word, but you'll have much better results with an audio card (or more likely an audio INTERFACE). What you should get will depend on what you want to send into the computer. For me, the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 is nearly perfect. I should have gotten the Scarlett 2i4 - the same model but with MIDI inputs. This is great for sending one or two lines into the PC (separate guitar & vocals, for ex).
There are lots of brands, price-points, and opinions. the only universal opinion seems to be to NOT use the Realtek audio chip that's embedded in most computers.
Thanks. I will not be connecting an MIDI or audio devices. I use only virtual instruments. Does that make a difference in your opinion?
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Slugbaby
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/13 10:04:02
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I think you'll still need something to process the Digital-Analog conversion when sending the sound out to your monitors.
I can't recommend anything specifically suited to having no audio inputs, but getting something with a simple in and out option will work (such as the scarlett series).
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AllanH
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/13 10:25:28
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☄ Helpfulby jude77 2017/01/13 10:51:22
I think it very much depends on what you do. If you're recording live audio you should get a real audio interface. If you're writing with virtual instruments and rendering to WAW or MP3, I don't think you need anything, and I don't see how having an interface would make any difference.
Sonar Platinum, EWHO/D, Spitfire, Miroslav, Pianoteq, ...., Kurzweil.
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slartabartfast
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/13 10:36:32
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☄ Helpfulby jude77 2017/01/13 10:51:31
jimlau
Thanks. I will not be connecting an MIDI or audio devices. I use only virtual instruments. Does that make a difference in your opinion?
Absolutely that makes a difference. You are only going to be using your audio interface to play stereo wave files coming from the SONAR mains out. That is about the same as playing a CD from your CD player and makes no more demands than that, so your built in onboard audio should be more than adequate. You can connect your monitor speakers or external amplifier with a cheap adapter even from a standard headphone jack. Try it and see. If you need more in the future buy it when you need it.
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Slugbaby
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/13 10:38:24
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slartabartfast
Try it and see. If you need more in the future buy it when you need it.
After reading Allan's comment, i was going to make the same comment. I alwasy assumed that the processing power for the synths vs the onboard sound would cause issues, but it's not a setup that I'm familiar with. "Try it and see" is always good advice.
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Atsuko
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/13 10:45:34
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And there's the new Wasapi mode drive that seems to let many people happy with the low latency it gives.
Desktop Intel I7 12GB RAM Win 10 64bit - Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 2nd gen - Roland A-300 PRO - Yamaha HS50M speakers - Sonar Platinum/CbB - Samplitude Pro X3 - Studio One 4 - Melodyne 4 Studio - Ozone 8 Adv - Neutron 2 Adv - RX7 Adv - ARC2 // Notebook Dell I7 8GB RAM Win 10 64bit
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Atsuko
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/13 10:50:16
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Of course, if you have the latest version of Sonar (Artist, Professional or Platinum).
Desktop Intel I7 12GB RAM Win 10 64bit - Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 2nd gen - Roland A-300 PRO - Yamaha HS50M speakers - Sonar Platinum/CbB - Samplitude Pro X3 - Studio One 4 - Melodyne 4 Studio - Ozone 8 Adv - Neutron 2 Adv - RX7 Adv - ARC2 // Notebook Dell I7 8GB RAM Win 10 64bit
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Fog
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/13 11:11:41
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i would see how you get on.. the DAW's I use now, can just about get by with a laptop if I really need to, but not for recording anything live like vocals. I'd say get a card dedicated though, it's partly about latency.. and partly about the quality of output.
if you do want a soundcard, try to think where you will be in 2 years, expanding wise.. otherwise you buy a cheap option.. then find later you need to spend more money further down the line.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/13 12:25:56
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I'll verify that with WASAPI exclusive mode on a W7 laptop running Home Studio I've worked hours and hours with just midi files without any issues. Only thing I haven't tried is recording midi from a keyboard. I think there might be a bit more latency but I could be wrong.
You don't need a soundblaster. Just use what ever on board chip. Modern Mobos come with all you need including good video cards with 3 outputs. There's nothing wrong with realtech sound chips. I've never had issues with any on board for playback. It always the recording that is an issue so if your not recording spend your money on the software and lots of RAM.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/13 14:12:21
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another vote for the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2. you can get one used for 75 bucks.
The SoundBlaster does not have pre amps like the Scarlett does.
This will help you avoid having to use adapters 1/8 to 1/4 and give you a much better over sound using the Scarlett's preamp. (will also accept XLR)
Never mind looks like you don't need any inputs.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/13 14:19:37
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If you don't care about low latency performance (because you won't be recording from a keyboard but just programming) then the only reason to ger a dedicated interface is for the quality of output. Which, frankly, you would have to spend a good amount of money on to get a clear difference and even then the room, your monitors and your ears/perception are bigger factors.
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jimfogle
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/13 15:30:41
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Your computer motherboard has a built-in Nahimic, Audio3 audio circuit which has gold plated audio connectors, EMI shielded audio processor, audio circuit isolated from the rest of the motherboard, audio quality capacitors, dual headphone amplifiers that support both low and high impedance headphones and there is physical support for both rear and front case headphone jacks. All of that bodes well for obtaining and producing acceptable audio quality.
Potential areas of concern:
Does the audio circuit designer, Nahimic, provide standalone audio drivers (good to excellent idea) or is the audio drivers embedded in the included Nahimic Audio3 software package (potentially bad). While the software package maybe great it includes MANY features you don't want such as virtual surround, bass boost, voice leveler, noise gate and reduction and voice clarifies. If you don't have some way of turning off these features they will interfere with your mission.
Does the motherboard have a discrete, separate power connector just for the audio circuit? Power supplies deteriorate with use and over time. The power supply can transmit electrical noise from another part of the computer to the audio circuit. There is a reduced chance of this happening when the audio circuit has its own input power connection.
Depending on how you listen headphones, powered speakers or both you may need to use "Y" cables and 3.5mm to 1/4" adapters. Adapters deteriorate over time without maintenance and could become the weakest chain in your system.
I'm really glad you asked this question. I have been investigating the motherboard as audio interface for awhile so it gave me an opportunity to voice some of my concerns.
I believe you will be happy with your setup.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/13 16:53:14
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Anyone worried about pristine audio quality to that level will have spent enough money on monitors, headphones and room that the few hundred for a high quality audio interface really isn't too big of a hurdle.
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jimfogle
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/13 18:18:14
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Sanderxpander
Anyone worried about pristine audio quality to that level will have spent enough money on monitors, headphones and room that the few hundred for a high quality audio interface really isn't too big of a hurdle.
I respectfully disagree. You know what you know and don't know what you don't know. In a forum you should never assume a poster posseses background knowledge beyond the scope of the post. Everybody's life experiences and technical skills have HUGE gaps in knowledge when applied to a specific task. Many people will state you MUST have an audio interface. That is normally because their focus is on recording so they have a bias toward needing an interface. In THIS case that is not true as the poster stated in a followup post that his or her intent is to stay in the box using soft synths to generate audio. Since a nonstandard path to get audio or midi into or out of the box is not required, other posters quickly determined an interface is not needed at this time. If the poster has little music production experience he or she may not have reached the point where enviornment obstacles come into play. The poster may not have the financial means to upgrade all hobby tools at the same time. The poster may live in a dorm, be in the military or exist in some other situation where ideal is impractical.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/13 19:25:44
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☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2017/01/18 14:46:24
jimfogle
Sanderxpander
Anyone worried about pristine audio quality to that level will have spent enough money on monitors, headphones and room that the few hundred for a high quality audio interface really isn't too big of a hurdle.
I respectfully disagree. You know what you know and don't know what you don't know. In a forum you should never assume a poster posseses background knowledge beyond the scope of the post. Everybody's life experiences and technical skills have HUGE gaps in knowledge when applied to a specific task.
Many people will state you MUST have an audio interface. That is normally because their focus is on recording so they have a bias toward needing an interface. In THIS case that is not true as the poster stated in a followup post that his or her intent is to stay in the box using soft synths to generate audio. Since a nonstandard path to get audio or midi into or out of the box is not required, other posters quickly determined an interface is not needed at this time.
If the poster has little music production experience he or she may not have reached the point where enviornment obstacles come into play. The poster may not have the financial means to upgrade all hobby tools at the same time. The poster may live in a dorm, be in the military or exist in some other situation where ideal is impractical.
I think a logical rebuttal to this is.... you spend 500 bucks on the software, you spend 300-500 on passable monitors, yet and the best place to save a few bucks is by using your onboard soundblaster soundcard ? it makes little to no sense. A decent used card can be had for under 100 bucks. The OP didn't mention either if he is running Windows 10 or not. If he is not and cant take advantage of Sonars new WASAPI then he will be forced to use something like ASIO4ALL which I have seen a lot of problems in the past. Just my opinion We all have one. 
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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jimlau
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/16 21:04:43
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Thanks. I use Windows 10 64-bit. The only issue I have is on occasion, during playback while in Sonar, a note is skipped. Not a big deal. Rendering is fine, the end quality is fine.
There is no power connection to the audio. There are lots of variables to play with, but I have not touched them as of yet. Need to tinker more to make sure they don't interfere.
So with that minor hiccup (so far), is that a bad omen of what may come? If not, I can stay as is. Otherwise, any card suggestion for a challenged budget?
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mettelus
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/16 21:13:42
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Go to Preferences->MIDI->Playback and Recording and bump up the "Prepare Using" under playback to a 500ms buffer. That is set to a default of 250ms, and can drop MIDI notes unless bumped up. If already 500ms, try bumping it up a little higher.
As long as you are not recording audio, your setup should be fine.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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jimlau
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/16 23:00:32
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mettelus
Go to Preferences->MIDI->Playback and Recording and bump up the "Prepare Using" under playback to a 500ms buffer. That is set to a default of 250ms, and can drop MIDI notes unless bumped up. If already 500ms, try bumping it up a little higher.
As long as you are not recording audio, your setup should be fine.
Thanks.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/17 02:37:17
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☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2017/01/18 14:46:11
jimfogle
Sanderxpander
Anyone worried about pristine audio quality to that level will have spent enough money on monitors, headphones and room that the few hundred for a high quality audio interface really isn't too big of a hurdle.
I respectfully disagree. You know what you know and don't know what you don't know. In a forum you should never assume a poster posseses background knowledge beyond the scope of the post. Everybody's life experiences and technical skills have HUGE gaps in knowledge when applied to a specific task.
Many people will state you MUST have an audio interface. That is normally because their focus is on recording so they have a bias toward needing an interface. In THIS case that is not true as the poster stated in a followup post that his or her intent is to stay in the box using soft synths to generate audio. Since a nonstandard path to get audio or midi into or out of the box is not required, other posters quickly determined an interface is not needed at this time.
If the poster has little music production experience he or she may not have reached the point where enviornment obstacles come into play. The poster may not have the financial means to upgrade all hobby tools at the same time. The poster may live in a dorm, be in the military or exist in some other situation where ideal is impractical.
I don't see you disagree anywhere with what I said. I'm saying that by the point it makes sense to nitpick audio quality THAT much, you will have bought (or need to buy) at the very least monitors and software as Chuck said. Getting an interface, like you said, is mostly about connectivity and performance. Because the audio quality coming out of most cards, while definitely not equal, is pretty passable. To hear a clear difference you'd need decent monitors at the very least.
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jimfogle
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/18 14:58:59
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Thanks to both Sanderexpander and Chuck Jones for your responses to my post. I enjoyed the conversation. I appreciate reading the different perspectives you both present and found both posts enlightening and helpful. I'm sure your opinions and mine have more similarities than differences.
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jimlau
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/19 13:22:07
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[as posted next, problem seems solved; it was an EastWest setting issue. may not need a sound card now. so far ;) ]
I tried my EWQLSO sample library on my second SSD (before this I wasn't testing simpler instruments). Transferring files from that SSD is fast (like when loading samples). But, now the notes often don't sustain all the way and drop off. A definite sign a sound card is needed? I tried various drivers, and ASIO4ALL, which helped but didn't solve the issue. Anyway, isn't an external device more than I need, with all those input connectors? Portability-wise, I think internal would also be easier.
What specs should I look for in finding something?
Thanks.
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jimlau
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/19 13:32:28
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Looks like this may be a PLAY 5.0 issue for my EWQLSO library. I think a setting there may have solved it.
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abacab
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Re: Sound Card Needed?
2017/01/20 11:27:29
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jimlau
Anyway, isn't an external device more than I need, with all those input connectors? Portability-wise, I think internal would also be easier.
What specs should I look for in finding something?
Years ago I used an internal Soundblaster PCI card, then upgraded to an M-Audio PCI Delta-44. I think that since PCI has now been replaced by PCIe (not compatible), that audio hardware manufacturers have focused on external audio interfaces with either USB or FireWire, and some hybrids with both types of connections. I upgraded to a FireWire unit for my main PC over ten years ago, which also worked with my old laptop that came with FireWire. My recent experience with my new laptop (no FireWire), using the on-board Realtek audio, is that it is excellent for audio playback. This laptop is really just for a portable office, not a DAW, but I couldn't resist loading up the toys for use while traveling  I did install ASIO4ALL on the laptop because I have a compact 25 key MIDI controller that I wanted to use to play virtual instruments, and take advantage of the low latency offered by ASIO. The native Windows drivers just offered the stock Windows audio, with poor latency performance for me. My thoughts on the on-board sound with Platinum on the laptop are that it works very well for audio playback and sounds at least as good, or better, than any SoundBlaster audio card from the past. The ASIO4ALL drivers give me very low latency so that I can play virtual instruments without any noticeable delays. I have not tested the new WASAPI audio under Win 10 yet with the latest Platinum, because what I have works fine. Maybe soon! Based on your needs, if you are concerned about portability, and you want to try a USB audio interface, there are some very inexpensive compact ones such as this: https://www.amazon.com/Be...ativeASIN%3DB000KW2YEI or this: https://www.amazon.com/St...ds=usb+audio+interface
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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