No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement.

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Hawkthornhill4366
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2017/01/31 11:05:17 (permalink)

No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement.

When I play my keyboard (Jupiter - 80) only the midi tracks show activity - - no movement or sound from any of the synths. I contacted Roland & they said my Quad Capture was working fine. I know everything is connected properly - - My Jupiter works fine (it's connected to my computer vie Quad Capture & to my receiver). I downloaded an Ableton Live trial & everything works great with it - - even my Sonar synths. I've tried numerous times to get a phone interview schedule with Cakewalk & only get the message that they are fully booked for some time. I emailed my problem, but only got a message to check my preferences to see if everything was assigned properly - - which I have checked four times. They also said to download the most recent Quad Capture driver (instructions to do so were very confusing & I didn't get the message screens  I was suppose to see, so I cancelled the download). Roland told me that what Cakewalk told me re the need to update my driver was not correct anyway. Since I may never get help from Cakewalk, I am seriously thinking of swithching to Ableton Live or Pro Tools. If I buy one of these from Sweetwater they will help me with any problems that I may have in the future. I'm hesistant on buying Pro Tools since I heard none of my Sonar synths will transfer, so I will probably go with Ableton Live. I love using Sonar, but with no help with problems, it's worthless.  Cakewalk used to be great before Gibson bought them - - they have destroyed a great product. Thoughts PLEASE!!
#1

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    scook
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/01/31 11:39:41 (permalink)
    Is this a question about SONAR? If so, which version. If not, which DAW?
    #2
    Hawkthornhill4366
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/01/31 11:42:26 (permalink)
    I have Sonar Platinum - - it's a question about Sonar. Thanks
    #3
    brundlefly
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/01/31 11:47:42 (permalink)
    Unless you're direct-monitoring the Jupiter, you need to have an audio track with input set to the Jupiter, output set to Master, and Input Echo enabled to echo the the input to the ouput. Input monitoring through SONAR is the preferred setup for working with hardware synths.
     
    EDIT: the same applies to soft synths except that Input Echo is always automatically and invisibly enabled in a 'Synth' track (i.e. and audio track with a synth output assigned as Input).

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    #4
    Hawkthornhill4366
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/01/31 11:53:13 (permalink)
    I use my Jupiter as my controller. It goes through my interface Quad Capture. It worked for years this way. My input & outputs are the same they have been for years & they always worked. I've tried to get action from synths that were on tracks from several of the songs I wrote (which always worked before) previously and no synth action on these as well. Thanks
    #5
    brundlefly
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/01/31 12:27:19 (permalink)
    I would 'begin at the beginning' with a new project using separate MIDI and synth audio tracks with synths inserted in the Synth Rack (i.e. not in audio track FX bins) so you can easily follow MIDI and audio signal paths independently. Get that working, and then troubleshoot existing projects if they continue to be a problem.  One possibilty is that the soft synths in existing projects are not connected/loaded successfully.

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    #6
    Hawkthornhill4366
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/01/31 16:31:12 (permalink)
    Thanks so much for responding but still not sounds or activity in synths. What's amazing is that everything works well in Ableton Live Trial.
     
    #7
    brundlefly
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/01/31 16:39:49 (permalink)
    Can't really help without some indication of where exactly the discontinuity is.
     
    I'm thinking possibly you've always depended on 'Always Echo Current MIDI Track' being enabled in MIDI preferences, and it's not enabled by default in your new installation.

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    #8
    Hawkthornhill4366
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/01/31 17:12:59 (permalink)
    I don't have always echo current midi enabled - - I always have to check the echo box to enable it. Plus, my midi works just fine -- just no activity in audio tracks or when I put in a synth ie If I insert individual audio & midi tracks & then a synth in my third track, only the midi track of the three tracks respond. Yet all this works in Ableton Live - - What a mystery - - I've been working on this problem for over a week. Cakewalk support responded only with what my preference settings should be & to download the most current driver for my Quad Capture. My settings are all correct (which I told Cakewalk to begin with) & Roland (still love Roland - - wonderful support from them always) said there was nothing wrong with my settings or Quad Capture. The mystery is why Ableton works fine. I realy liked Sonar until Gibson bought the company. I'm 74 & it took me a long time to really get a good handle on Sonar (my 1st & only daw that I bought four yrs ago & started from scratch) - - I would sure hate abandon it after all the hours I have spent working with it. THANKS FOR HELPING!!
    #9
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/01/31 17:20:15 (permalink)
    I'm assuming here that you can get Sonar to play back actual audio (a loop or previously recorded file)

    Do you have
    1. Sonar in ASIO driver mode in preferences
    2. Your Quad Capture selected as I/O in preferences
    3. Your midi in ports enabled in preferences
    4. Midi routed to a softsynth (and checked that you can record midi notes)
    5. The softsynth routed to your master bus
    6. The master bus routed to the output on your QuadCapture that you want to use


    If all that is checked, what happens if you change the buffer size in the ASIO control panel?
    Are there any other applications open (browser etc) that might be using the soundcard?
    #10
    Hawkthornhill4366
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/01/31 17:51:06 (permalink)
    I can't get audio from tracks I recorded before my problem. I can record midi (audio & synth no activity whatsoever).  I have copied midi tracks into an audio track that has a synth assigned to it, but no activity. I'll check the buffer size in my ASIO panel; no other applications are open. It's amazing that everything is set just like it has been for yrs & also, that Ableton works just fine. Could it be a computer problem? I have the top of the line HP that I ordered from HP four yrs ago - - we do have a few other problems with it - - only Firefox works - - I have to go to Firefox to get on AOL. The microsoft E also does not work & the computer is a little slower to respond to commands. THANKS FOR YOUR  SUGGESTIONS!!
     
     
    #11
    lowerfreq
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/01/31 22:35:01 (permalink)
    How long has this been happening?   Have you been updating SPLAT each month?  Maybe you should try to rollback (in the command center) to a previous version just to check and see if it changes anything...  Good luck!!

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    #12
    Hawkthornhill4366
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/01/31 22:43:47 (permalink)
    It's been a week now & still no solution. I did try to bring up the Sonar X3 version to check to see if it worked properly, but my computer froze. I'm going to have a local computer repairman check to see if my I have a virus or some other problem with my computer. Obviously he won't know anything about using a daw, but at least maybe I can rule a computer problem out, to make sure it is in fact Sonar Platinum causing he problem. I downloaded Ableton Live Trial and everything works properly in it - - even all my Sonar instruments.
     
    Thanks for trying to help - - I'm going crazy trying to solve this problem.
    #13
    brundlefly
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/01/31 23:29:01 (permalink)
    Can you share a simple project using Cakewalk synths that's not working? Just want to confirm this is a system-specific issue.

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    Sanderxpander
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/02/01 02:26:46 (permalink)
    Since no audio at all is coming from Sonar I would assume it's an interface configuration problem. Have you tried another driver mode? E.g. MME. It's horrible but should work with almost any device.

    As a last call I think you might be able to delete your aud.ini file (backup first) to reset a few things.
    #15
    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/02/01 05:04:36 (permalink)
    Hawkthornhill4366
    I don't have always echo current midi enabled - - I always have to check the echo box to enable it. Plus, my midi works just fine -- just no activity in audio tracks or when I put in a synth ie If I insert individual audio & midi tracks & then a synth in my third track, only the midi track of the three tracks respond.


    What does this mean - three tracks to play a soft synth? What are the inputs and outputs of these tracks set to? If you use Insert>Softsynth>(softsynth name)>First audio output you get two tracks - a MIDI track and an audio output track.

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    #16
    John
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/02/01 07:58:42 (permalink)
    I loaded an empty project I use as a startup project for various things. It has no tracks in it. I insert a MIDI track in it and whether echo is on or not when I press a key on the MIDI keyboard and the MIDI meter lights up. It shows that a MIDI event is occurring plus the velocity is shown. This is the active track and it the only one in the project. 
     
    I next inserted another MIDI track an played a few keys on the mIDI keyboard and the same thing happened. The new track was the active track. Echo is off.
     
    The MIDI meters show activity on the track. Echo has nothing to do with it. It shouldn't matter what the condition of echo is for MIDI whether its coming from a keyboard or has been previously recorded. This is not a simple instrument track. It is a MIDI track only. Its set to none for channel, for bank and patch. Its set for MIDI omni in the input. In my case its going to a hardware synth.  These are my defaults.    
     
    Use the MIDI meters to see if you are getting activity. If not check your connection. As a test load a MIDI file and play it back.  See if the MIDI meters work showing activity on each track. 

    Best
    John
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    Atsuko
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/02/01 08:55:27 (permalink)
    Hawkthornhill4366
    It's been a week now & still no solution. I did try to bring up the Sonar X3 version to check to see if it worked properly, but my computer froze. I'm going to have a local computer repairman check to see if my I have a virus or some other problem with my computer. Obviously he won't know anything about using a daw, but at least maybe I can rule a computer problem out, to make sure it is in fact Sonar Platinum causing he problem. I downloaded Ableton Live Trial and everything works properly in it - - even all my Sonar instruments.
     
    Thanks for trying to help - - I'm going crazy trying to solve this problem.


    What windows version? Win 10 can mess with some interface drivers...

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    #18
    tlw
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/02/01 09:44:00 (permalink)
    Hawkthornhill4366
    If I insert individual audio & midi tracks & then a synth in my third track, only the midi track of the three tracks respond.


    Sorry, but I'm confised by this.

    A software synth generally requires a MIDI track for the MIDI and a single mono or stereo audio track, unless you're using a synth with multiple audio outputs. You seem to be saying you create and audio track,then create a MIDI track then create another audio track and put the synth in that. Am I understanding you correctly?

    If that is indeed what you are doing I suggest you insert a synth using the synth rack and in the options window select a single audio track and a single MIDI track. That will create a MIDI track correctly routed to the synth in the audio track. That should work, and all versions of Sonar are perfectly capable of using MIDI and software synths, if they weren't I suspect there would be hundreds of complaints on this forum and there isn't.....

    From what you are saying it sounds to me like you have the routing between MIDI and the synth audio track set up incorrectly. Check the output of MIDI tracks is indeed pointing to the audio track the synth is sitting on and that the input of the audio track is pointing to the correct MIDI track, also that the MIDI track and synth are set to the same MIDI channel.

    I suspect the reason Live "just works" is that it has routed the synth and MIDI correctly using its default settings while by the sounds of it you are not using Sonar's default routing but something else of your own that does not work for some reason.

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    #19
    brundlefly
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/02/01 10:49:09 (permalink)
    John
    I insert a MIDI track in it and whether echo is on or not when I press a key on the MIDI keyboard and the MIDI meter lights up.
    ...
    ...
    The MIDI meters show activity on the track. Echo has nothing to do with it. It shouldn't matter what the condition of echo is for MIDI whether its coming from a keyboard or has been previously recorded.



    Unless there's a config setting I don't know about, I think you're mistaken about this, John. MIDI track meters are output meters only. They only show activity if existing MIDI is playing back or live input is being echoed. Even arming the track does not switch the meters to the input side as you might expect.

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    #20
    John
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/02/01 11:49:10 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    John
    I insert a MIDI track in it and whether echo is on or not when I press a key on the MIDI keyboard and the MIDI meter lights up.
    ...
    ...
    The MIDI meters show activity on the track. Echo has nothing to do with it. It shouldn't matter what the condition of echo is for MIDI whether its coming from a keyboard or has been previously recorded.



    Unless there's a config setting I don't know about, I think you're mistaken about this, John. MIDI track meters are output meters only. They only show activity if existing MIDI is playing back or live input is being echoed. Even arming the track does not switch the meters to the input side as you might expect.


    Try it. In the case I outlined above the transport was not moving there was sound from the synth and nothing was  being recorded. However it was using a hardware synth a Sound Canvas which is the default for a new MIDI track as output on my system. Basically its just being used as a transfer point for MIDI. As if it were MIDI through.  If however I set that track to record it would. Before I posted I did exactly what I described on my system. Sonar has always worked this way.
    BTW I use the right click menu to insert a track. 
     
    Update:
    OK I just tried it with a project for audio. This project is two audio tracks meant for playback only. Each one is a song. The MIDI track I inserted did not show any MIDI activity but the synth did sound. This is not as it should be.
     
    I will have to look into this further. Echo had no effect on or off. On inserting a MIDI track into my empty project it did as it had before. MIDI activity was showing. 
     
    I created a new project from a CW template one audio and one MIDI track and the results were the same for the empty project. Activity was seen and sound was heard. Now I am baffled.  
     
    One cool thing Brundelfly is I know you know what you are talking about. I trust you completely. I'm just not seeing the same as you. 
     
    I retested the 2 song project and it agrees with what you are saying. The other projects don't. More baffled.

    Best
    John
    #21
    brundlefly
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/02/01 12:35:40 (permalink)
    Interesting, John. I haven't tried, but I'm guessing that it works that way when the project Clock is set to 'Internal', which is only possible in a pure MIDI project with no audio content, including the audio metronome.

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    #22
    John
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/02/01 12:47:55 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    Interesting, John. I haven't tried, but I'm guessing that it works that way when the project Clock is set to 'Internal', which is only possible in a pure MIDI project with no audio content, including the audio metronome.


    I knew you could figure it out. That sounds like the reason. We are all blessed to have you here. 

    Best
    John
    #23
    Hawkthornhill4366
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/02/04 09:52:02 (permalink)
    Thanks to all of you who responded with suggestions re getting no audio/or track recording in my audio tracks - - only activity was in my midi tracks. I tired all of your suggestions + a few from a couple of email responses I got from Cakewalk. My Quad Capture and entire set up were found to be correct. I downloaded a trial of Ableton Live and all of my Platinum synths worked fine there. I even had my computer checked out (my two hard disk drives & if I had any viruses or other items that could have caused the problem). The drives are in good shape & all the junk files were removed, but still no Platinum audio action & still getting a lot of freezing up when I try to work with it. Bottom line: I'm done with Cakewalk & Sonar. It's a great program if it works, but I've had too many problems with it, & of course this is the worst problem I've ever had. Maybe if Gibson didn't buy Cakewalk, and you could still get help via the phone (like I always got in the past) I would stay with it - - but I'm not sure that would even help to solve this problem. I'll be going to Presonus Studio One 3 and/or Ableton Live. Sonar was my first, and only daw that I used. All of my equipment is Roland - - electric midi accordion, electric midi guitar, Quad Capture & Jupiter-80. Roland is a great company & still offers wonderful support - - that's why I got Sonar & the other items.
     
    For review I have: Windows 7 (64bit), 12GB DDR3 - 1600MHz, 2TB 7200 rpm SATA hard drive, 1 TB 7200 SATA hard drive 1GB AMD Radeon HD 7570.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    #24
    Hawkthornhill4366
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/02/11 10:25:30 (permalink)
    Well after trying all of the above suggestions, I called Roland to ask about my Jupiter-80, which I use as my controller. Sure enough, good old Roland came through again. The person I talked to said it sounded like too many signals were going into the computer. So I looked at my set up again. After having to disconnect all my cables & move my equipment due to recarpeting my music studio area, I mistakenly attached my cables. So at last, my Sonar works again! Thanks again to all who responded.
     
    #25
    brundlefly
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    Re: No Synth movement or audio- - only midi movement. 2017/02/11 11:53:31 (permalink)
    Hawkthornhill4366
    After having to disconnect all my cables & move my equipment due to recarpeting my music studio area, I mistakenly attached my cables.



    That would have been a useful piece of information to have for troubleshooting, and contradicts your statement early on that 'My input & outputs are the same they have been for years & they always worked."
     
    I guess we on the forum made the rookie mistake of not explicitly asking if anything had changed since it last worked. In my day job I've learned not to rely on users to automatically mention recent changes without being prompted.
     
    Hard to imagine how these changes weren't affecting other DAW software, though.
     
    Oh, well, good to hear you got it figured in any case.

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