How to: Hardware setup with Focusrite Pro 40

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Coreysan123
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2018/09/22 19:13:30 (permalink)

How to: Hardware setup with Focusrite Pro 40

I have a new machine, and I can't seem to get Sonar X3 Producer to record off the Internet anymore.
A few things are new on my box:
1. The C drive is now an M.2 SSD
2. New Gigabyte mobo that doesn't have Firewire port, so I bought a PCI card for Firewire
 
The Focusrite sound panel's routing preset is set to DAW Tracking, and I can listen to Internet just fine, and the levels
are displaying Db level just fine.
 
I can arm a Sonar track to play, and that works fine as well, output to the Focusrite.
 
However, when I arm an audio track for record, I get: "Unable to open audio record device. Device may not support the current
project's audio format or may be in use."
 
Am I in trouble, or did I just forget something??
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    msmcleod
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    Re: How to: Hardware setup with Focusrite Pro 40 2018/09/22 23:40:22 (permalink)
    This message usually comes up when:
    1. You've got your Focusrite set as your default Windows sound device; and
    2. Windows' sound settings (sampling rate / bit depth) are different from what they are in X3
    So there's two options,
    1. Change Windows' sound settings to match what you want in Sonar (note that after some windows updates, it'll annoyingly randomly change it back); or
    2. Enable your on-board sound device, and get Windows to use that so that your Focusrite is free for Sonar to use without interruption.
     
    The issue with (2) of course, is that you won't hear Windows sounds, sounds from your browser etc (e.g. youtube, spotify etc) unless you've got your on-board sound device connected to your speakers as well. 
     
    Personally I use option (2) with a Mackie Big Knob to switch between my focusrite and my on-board device.
     

    Mark McLeod
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    #2
    Coreysan123
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    Re: How to: Hardware setup with Focusrite Pro 40 2018/09/23 03:16:41 (permalink)
    Mark,
    I really appreciate your advice on this. I did this so many years ago that now I've forgotten most of it.
    Here's what I did:
    1. Went to Sound Devices panel, and made sure Focusrite was the only selected audio device. All others disabled.
    2. The playback properties are set to 16/48000
    3. The recording properties are set to 16/48000
     
    4. I got into Sonar, and went to Edit/Preferences
    5. I noticed that the driver mode was set to MME. The Cakewalk documentation says put it to ASIO, so I did.
    6. All input and output drivers are set to my Saffire.
    7. Since its ASIO, the bit depth dropdown is greyed out, so it probably defaults to 16 bit. Nothing I can change.
    8. The Sampling rate is 48000.
     
    At this point, the 16/48000 matches on Sonar, Saffire, and WIndows software settings.
     
    Then I tried to record, but no-go, same message as before.
     
    Notes:
    When I used the MME driver mode, the error message did not come up, but the signal was flat, no nothing, so during record from the audio signal using the browser the track was just flat as could be.
     
    Any thoughts?
    If it gets super complicated, is there someone I can call, or something I can read?
     
    #3
    msmcleod
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    Re: How to: Hardware setup with Focusrite Pro 40 2018/09/23 09:58:42 (permalink)
    Coreysan123
    7. Since its ASIO, the bit depth dropdown is greyed out, so it probably defaults to 16 bit. Nothing I can change.

     
    Don't assume this - click on the ASIO Panel button and make sure your ASIO bit depth/sampling rate is set to be the same.
     
    If you can, I'd use 24 bit rather than 16 bit. It makes a huge difference in dynamic range.
     
    [Edit: obviously you'll need to set it to 24 bit in Windows / CbB too]
     

    Mark McLeod
    Cakewalk by BL | ASUS P8B75-V, Intel I5 3570 16GB RAM Win 10 64 + Win 7 64/32 SSD HD's, Scarlett 18i20 / 6i6 | ASUS ROG GL552VW 16GB RAM Win 10 64 SSD HD's, Scarlett 2i2 | Behringer Truth B2030A / Edirol MA-5A | Mackie MCU + C4 + XT | 2 x BCF2000, Korg NanoKontrol Studio
    #4
    mettelus
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    Re: How to: Hardware setup with Focusrite Pro 40 2018/09/23 11:12:50 (permalink)
    The other part you are missing aside from sample rate mentioned above is the input channel in SONAR needs to be set to the "loopback 1/2" channels on the Saffire to record audio passing through the device.

    If monitoring the DAW, you will also want to mute the audio tracks you are recording (they will still record) so you do not introduce a feedback loop. There are a few ways to avoid this, but that is the simplest. The Saffire manual is good to reference for how to set up loopback into a DAW.

    If you mute the input track (set to loopback for input), arm it, and meters are not moving, your routing in MixControl is not set properly.

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #5
    Wookiee
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    Re: How to: Hardware setup with Focusrite Pro 40 2018/09/23 16:42:50 (permalink)
    You do have to enable the loop back facility in the Pro 40's Mixer so SONAR can see the incoming audio.

    Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
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    #6
    shmuelyosef
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    Re: How to: Hardware setup with Focusrite Pro 40 2018/09/24 00:27:13 (permalink)
    I have a Saffire Pro 40 and have used it for years with Cakewalk DAWs. However, as I recall, it is fussy about the Firewire interface. I remember that I had to find an interface card that used TI (Texas Instruments) chips and not clones or copies. The first cheap card I got also didn't work.

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    #7
    Coreysan123
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    Re: How to: Hardware setup with Focusrite Pro 40 2018/09/24 01:22:31 (permalink)
    Thanks so much for your help, friends. I'm really beginning to think it's my PCI card for FireWire. But I tried the configuration a third time, and wondered if you spot anything I did wrong:
     
    1. I uninstalled the FocusRite Saffire sound driver software, and reinstalled from the original CD when I purchased the Focusrite Pro 40 (version 2.1).
     
    2. I disabled all other sound devices, using Device Manager. Only Saffire is enabled.
     
    3. I went into Windows Sound Devices Manager and configured both the playback and record on the Saffire software to use 24 bit/96000.
     
    4. I doubled checked Saffire, and confirmed it inherited the 96000 sampling rate from the config.
     
    5. Before using Sonar X3, I tested the routing presets. I get playback from the browser if I use DAW Tracking, and Mixing. I get absolutely no sound at all if I select "Loopback" for the preset. (I find that suspicious, but I could be wrong.)
     
    6. So, I set up Saffire for DAW Tracking, but set up the Loopback 1 and Loopback 2 to use the Analog 1 in and Analog 2 In channels.
     
    7. I brought up Sonar X3, and made absolutely sure that the ASIO config was set to 24/96000. I didn't know that
    Sonar will inherit the 24 bit depth from Saffire, so that explains why it's greyed out. If I were to change the bit depth, I'd see the change in Sonar. I only had to make sure the sampling rate matched.
     
    8. So, I can get playback just fine, but if I attempt to record anything off the browser, I get that same error message.
     
    So unless I am still not understanding the configuration settings, I think ShmuelJoseph has a point. The PCI card I got for FireWire got a pass from Focusrite, but I still wonder if it's a cheapie. It was a standard PCI to Firewire card at Fry's Electronics.
     
    Any thoughts, anyone? Again, thank you all so very much!
    Corey
    #8
    Coreysan123
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    Re: How to: Hardware setup with Focusrite Pro 40 2018/09/29 03:21:42 (permalink)
    I finally got it working.
    It worked if the Saffire software is set to 48000 sampling rate. Any higher, I'm hosed.
    I have an appointment to talk with Focusrite Monday to see what I can do to get
    back the 96000 rate.
    I'll ask if it's a limitation of the PCI card or something else.
     
    How 'bout that. Always learning!
    #9
    mettelus
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    Re: How to: Hardware setup with Focusrite Pro 40 2018/09/29 14:50:23 (permalink)
    When I shifted to Win10, I had to back out MixControl to 3.4. 3.7 has a known bug that doesn't pass audio unless you shift the audio buffer (and cannot do this if the Saffire is the default Windows device since it will lock it). That bug is why the Mac-only 3.6 was made.

    Backing out to 3.4 using Win10 requires two steps, so will post that later if Focusrite doesn't tell you how. Not at the computer ATM, but they sent me an email about that several months ago. 3.4 works as expected for my Saffire, but uninstalling 3.7 has an extra step (which IIRC was to uninstall the driver's from the device manager in addition to the MixControl software itself... Otherwise 3.4 will find/use the 3.7 drivers on you).

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #10
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