mrh
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freezing track changes level
Hi guys,
I can't seem to find any discussion on this so here goes. Yesterday I was trying to freeze some tracks to free up some CPU capacity.
I have a bass guitar track with one UAD Pultec Pro and one UAD LA2A. The recorded wave form shows maximum peak of around -2db. On playback it does not "red-line" and it sounds clean with no distortion.
When I freeze the track, the resultant wave form shows saturation - it appears that there has been an increase of at least 6db. The sound is noticeably distorted.
The fader and trim levels on the track are set at 0db. I have tried many different combinations of settings to get rid of this but to no avail. For example, on the LA2A I have dropped the gain back from around 70 points to around 20. No difference. I have tried trimming the track back by 6 db. No difference.
Then on another track (which is a snare) with one instance of UAD LA2A, with fader and trim levels set at 0db, when I freeze I get a drop in level - about 3 db lost.
What gives?
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space_cowboy
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RE: freezing track changes level
2008/07/27 20:29:42
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I am not entirely sure I understand your question or comment, but here goes.
In a track if you haven't applied effects or frozen or bounced, what you are seeing is the raw audio waveform without limiters, compressors, choruses...
When you freeze, apply effects or bounce, you are doing it to free system resources, right? Like effects. So when you apply effects or bounce or freeze, you are rendering the raw audio through the effects and then printing.
As such, there should be no relationship between how hot the signal is before and after freezing. It is up to you to set the gains properly. You should be able to see on the meters whether a track is clipping post effects.
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mrh
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RE: freezing track changes level
2008/07/27 20:40:58
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Thanks Space Cowboy. I understand what you are saying and I am aware of the need to ensure that the track does not clip once it is processed by the effects.
In the bass track instance, the track is not clipping post effects. Once frozen, it is not only visually clipping - substantially - but also it is audibly clipping.
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mnguy
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RE: freezing track changes level
2008/07/27 23:47:14
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I have been having the same problem, Freezing Addictive Drums or Akoustik Piano sends the levels all over the place. Mostly it causes them to clip. If I unfreeze them everything goes back to normal. I have checked and double check meters to assure nothing is clipping before freezing.
Glad to see i'm not the only one having this problem. A fix would be nice!
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droddey
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RE: freezing track changes level
2008/07/28 02:59:10
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If the increased or decrease is of the +/- 3 or 6dB type, then it's usually a panning law issue. If you are not careful about maintaing the correct relationship between the actual stereo/mono contents of a track adn teh stereo/mono interleave button setting, then you can get hit by the pan laws when you freeze or export. So make sure that if the track is really mono that the mono interleave is et and vice versa. You can also, just for funzies, go set one of the pan laws that doesn't change the volume during panning (though that still won't necessailry help if you have the interleave wrong.)
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mrh
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RE: freezing track changes level
2008/07/28 03:03:28
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Thanks droddey.
Its not a panning issue. All of the tracks that have exhibited this behaviour are mono and they are panned dead centre!
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Eraser
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Re:freezing track changes level
2010/08/13 12:26:37
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I am having a similar issue when freezing tracks in Sonar 8.5.3. When I freeze my bass track I can visually see that the wave file is smaller and quieter. The track volume is set to 0. It is a mono track and the interleave is set to mono. The track is not panned.
I tried the following: Before freezing with compression turned off peak volume is - 3.6. With compression turned on the peak volume is - 6.3. After freezing the track with the compression effect the peak volume is - 16.9.
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brundlefly
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Re:freezing track changes level
2010/08/13 14:25:43
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Eraser
I am having a similar issue when freezing tracks in Sonar 8.5.3. When I freeze my bass track I can visually see that the wave file is smaller and quieter. The track volume is set to 0. It is a mono track and the interleave is set to mono. The track is not panned.
I tried the following: Before freezing with compression turned off peak volume is - 3.6. With compression turned on the peak volume is - 6.3. After freezing the track with the compression effect the peak volume is - 16.9. I think your issue is unrelated to the original ( 2-year-old) post to which you've replied. That issue was related to the way SONAR handles stereo soft synths in tracks set to mono interleave, which will cause a 3dB increase in level on freezing of the interleave is left at mono. You issue is more likely related to using a stereo compressor on a mono track. I do almost everything in stereo, so I'm not the guy address the issue in detail; I just wanted to clarify for people who might read the whole thread, thinking it's new, and that your issue is the same as the OP.
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bitflipper
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Re:freezing track changes level
2010/08/13 18:28:00
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There were several issues in SONAR 7 with levels changing and automation being ignored during freezing, plus a couple other freeze-related issues. They were all fixed in 7.0.1 and 7.0.2. There is, however, a current issue with level changes after freezing soft synths when mono outputs have been selected, which results in a 3db increase. Here's a lengthy thread on that from June. The status of that bug report remains "under investigation".
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