twisted6s
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future X2 update won't install in Vista??? [Answered]
Hi Cakewalk, tell me if I understand this correctly. Even though X2 installs and works in Vista future updates for X2 will not only not be supported in Vista but you won't even allow the X2 updates to INSTALL in Vista? I hope that's not true. Because while I understand you may not want to support us Vista users, why would you make it impossible for us to install the update?!? When have you ever done this??? What about "Install at your own risk"? Can't we make that decision for ourselves? Vista isn't new but it suuuuure ain't that old!!! Hell, X2 itself installs on XP!!! Truth be told you're pretty much saying that there's only one operating system that you'll support that's in wide use and that's Windows 7. For some of us installing a brand new operating system isn't important because Vista ROCKS on alot of our computers and re-installing all that software and testing and installing new drivers when our present system is working great seems incomprehensible!! If I misunderstood the following statement then I apologize for my rant: Windows 7 or Windows 8* (32 and 64-bit). XP and Vista are no longer officially supported. Future updates will not be compatible or install on XP and Vista as they are no longer officially supported.
post edited by Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk] - 2012/10/24 17:09:40
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musicroom
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 16:54:09
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Just grabbed some popcorn and I'm waiting to read the answer to this on my Vista 64 system/screen.
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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 17:07:37
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twisted6s
Hi Cakewalk, tell me if I understand this correctly. Even though X2 installs and works in Vista future updates for X2 will not only not be supported in Vista but you won't even allow the X2 updates to INSTALL in Vista?
That is correct. The patches will only be able to install on Windows 7 and Windows 8. Due to the changes needed in implementing multi-touch and full Windows 8 support we need to move to newer Microsoft distributables. These packages are only able to be installed on Windows 7 and 8 at this time. Noel's original post can be found here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=2667396&mpage=1#2667950
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musicroom
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 17:37:37
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So effectively, X2 is much more expensive and time intensive for Vista 64 users.
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twisted6s
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 17:39:23
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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk
]
twisted6s
Hi Cakewalk, tell me if I understand this correctly. Even though X2 installs and works in Vista future updates for X2 will not only not be supported in Vista but you won't even allow the X2 updates to INSTALL in Vista?
That is correct. The patches will only be able to install on Windows 7 and Windows 8.
Due to the changes needed in implementing multi-touch and full Windows 8 support we need to move to newer Microsoft distributables. These packages are only able to be installed on Windows 7 and 8 at this time.
Noel's original post can be found here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=2667396&mpage=1#2667950
Well...that's not good at all Seth. Thank you anyway for the quick reply..I guess..  Umm..sooo...How about a more substantial quickfix then ?? ...(wink, wink) 
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Splat 
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 17:52:52
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>So effectively, X2 is much more expensive and time intensive for Vista 64 users. No !!!!!Vista is much more expensive and time intensive for Cakewalk developers. *** Vista is NOT supported *** http://www.cakewalk.com/products/SONAR/X2-Producer/ From Friday you can upgrade to Windows 8 for a bargain price. You haven't been given a dead end. Give it up! (Was always a crappy OS anyway).
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stevec
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 18:01:56
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And then there's this comment from Noel in that same thread: " I'm not certain how this will pan out myself until we finish the work but there is a possibility that Vista will still load X2 (no official testing or support though)."
I was under the impression that the Win8 distributables were completely incompatible with XP, but simply wouldn't provide touch support for Vista. Maybe?
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Splat
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 18:17:23
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> I was under the impression that the Win8 distributables were completely incompatible with XP, but simply wouldn't provide touch support for Vista.
??????????????????
Give it up - go Windows 8! :)
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Splat
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 18:20:36
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Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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John
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 18:21:16
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My solution for this non issue is to upgrade to Windows 8. Its time anyway for me.
I just tested X2 Producer on Win 8 RTM and I was impressed. I ran the Cori Yarckin demo and it ran very nicely indeed. What is very impressive is the low but even core loading.
Now I am hoping Windows 8 gives us a way to bypass Metro at least for booting.
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elsongs
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 18:26:29
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I could understand XP people being upset, but I'm more shocked that there's actually people still using Vista.
Elson Trinidad Los Angeles, CA, USA Web: www.elsongs.com Twitter: twitter.com/elsongs DAWs: Cakewalk by Bandlab, Cakewalk Sonar Platinum x64, Propellerhead Reason 9, Presonus Studio One v3 OS: Windows 10 Professional CPU: Intel i7 3820 3.6MHz MB: ASRock X79 Xtreme4 RAM: Corsair Vengeance 16GB DDR3 Audio: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd Generation MIDI: MOTU Microlite & Novation Impulse 61
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Mystic38
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 18:30:21
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Lets be honest here... if you have xp or vista you simply should not have purchased X2 in the first place.. the system requirements for win7/8 is clearly marked.
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John
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 18:46:07
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That is why I consider it a non issue. On the other hand I did purchase X2 Producer and I do run Vista. But I did so at my own risk. Further I don't think anyone needs to post what I should or shouldn't do with my money. Remember there were compelling incentives for early adopters. Its one thing to remind us that XP and Vista are not supported its another to be somewhat rude about it. Lets be honest here... if you have xp or vista you simply should not have purchased X2 in the first place.. the system requirements for win7/8 is clearly marked.
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twisted6s
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 18:51:13
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John
That is why I consider it a non issue. On the other hand I did purchase X2 Producer and I do run Vista. But I did so at my own risk. Further I don't think anyone needs to post what I should or shouldn't do with my money.
Remember there were compelling incentives for early adopters.
Its one thing to remind us that XP and Vista are not supported its another to be somewhat rude about it.
+1
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ampfixer
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 19:04:10
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It looks like X2 and Win8 will be a package for me. I was just checking out the win8 requirements and found that it won't be a simple install from win7 PRo. Going from win 7 pro to win 8 will require a complete reinstall of all software according to microsoft.
For me it will be be a complete, and expensive, upgrade. Hardware and software this time around.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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bitflipper
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 19:21:27
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According to Microsoft's own numbers, there are nearly 400 million XP and Vista machines in the world today and 500 million Windows 7 & 8 machines. If you look at business users specifically, the XP/Vista numbers actually exceed W7/8. There's good reason for that: if you rely on a workstation in your business, you stabilize it, standardize it and then leave it the flick alone.
I can only imagine what will happen when every business application vendor announces that no updates are going to be available to those 400 million users. Fortunately, most vendors aren't bound by the Windows Logo program, which lets Microsoft dictate what they can and cannot do.
I am not convinced that there is any technical reason for being unable to distribute an installer that's Vista/XP compatible, other than Microsoft is forcing vendors to abandon those operating systems in order to spur sales. Yes, I know that critical pieces of a SONAR installation are actually sourced from Microsoft and have to be distributed unmodified.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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twisted6s
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Splat
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 20:08:08
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Get over it, Microsoft are going to sell you an upgrade that is dirt cheap if you take them up quickly.
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musicroom
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 20:34:46
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John
That is why I consider it a non issue. On the other hand I did purchase X2 Producer and I do run Vista. But I did so at my own risk. Further I don't think anyone needs to post what I should or shouldn't do with my money.
Remember there were compelling incentives for early adopters.
Its one thing to remind us that XP and Vista are not supported its another to be somewhat rude about it.
Lets be honest here... if you have xp or vista you simply should not have purchased X2 in the first place.. the system requirements for win7/8 is clearly marked.
+1 John - it's funny that people can be arrogant about an OS.
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daveny5
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 21:03:19
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+1 John - it's funny that people can be arrogant about an OS. I wouldn't say its arrogant. I would call it sensible. A lot of people think upgrading the Operating System is like upgrading an application and that's just not the case. Upgrading the OS requires planning and preparation. If you just run headlong into upgrading your OS without checking to make sure your hardware and existing applications are compatible, then that's your fault. MS provides tools for checking them. I bet not too many people ran them and then after they installed the OS found out the hard way. I know I did. I lost a lot of applications when I upgraded to XP and when I upgraded to Windows 7, my MIDISport MIDI interfaces didn't work and M-Audio hadn't upgraded the drivers and it took them so long to upgrade them (and never guaranteed they would upgrade them) that I had go off and buy another MIDI interface. So, word to the wise..... read those requirements lists and make sure you run the Windows Upgrade Advisor before plunging in headfirst. You might save yourself a few headaches.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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Splat
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 21:04:37
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"Lets be honest here... if you have xp or vista you simply should not have purchased X2 in the first place.. the system requirements for win7/8 is clearly marked."
How this statement can be interpreted as rude is beyond me. These are clear facts (you're lucky it worked at all, but I'm glad in all of your cases it did, if only temporarily). I hope Apple users won't be offended by saying this won't run on their systems either, and if they have bought it they shouldn't have.
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twisted6s
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 21:07:39
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CakeAlexS
Get over it, Microsoft are going to sell you an upgrade that is dirt cheap if you take them up quickly.
Hi Alex. I really don't post that often but i will say this: It is apparent to me that there are 4 types of people who post on these forums. 1) Those who want help. 2) Those who pretend they're complaing so they can troll. 3) Those who want to help. 4) Those who seek attention disguised as a "response". I won't question your motivation but I am not at odds with Cakewalk or you. There is nothing for me to "get over". I simply had a question about my operating system and I wasn't happy with the changes I see coming. If all you have to offer in response is more of what you've already said..well.. I heard you the first time. You got my and others attention with your remarks. Please, let's move on.
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Splat
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 21:23:42
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These were simply words of encouragement. Get over Vista. Maybe I was insulting to Vista, in which case I apologise for insulting an operating system. Maybe you don't like my writing style in which case I apologise as well.
But when we get into personal attacks - well that is something else. I certainly have not addressed anybody personally, and I notice somebody was attacked earlier for stating a simple fact.
But good idea - moving on. Getting over it!
(ps Vista still sucks).
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John
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 21:28:12
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bitflipper
According to Microsoft's own numbers, there are nearly 400 million XP and Vista machines in the world today and 500 million Windows 7 & 8 machines. If you look at business users specifically, the XP/Vista numbers actually exceed W7/8. There's good reason for that: if you rely on a workstation in your business, you stabilize it, standardize it and then leave it the flick alone.
I can only imagine what will happen when every business application vendor announces that no updates are going to be available to those 400 million users. Fortunately, most vendors aren't bound by the Windows Logo program, which lets Microsoft dictate what they can and cannot do.
I am not convinced that there is any technical reason for being unable to distribute an installer that's Vista/XP compatible, other than Microsoft is forcing vendors to abandon those operating systems in order to spur sales. Yes, I know that critical pieces of a SONAR installation are actually sourced from Microsoft and have to be distributed unmodified.
I was thinking along the same lines. I wasn't going to say anything about numbers but I am very glad you have. There are reasons people choose an OS to use with their computer. I did not choose mine from an uninformed position. Yet I sometimes get the notion that some have. I see that in some of the posts relating to Windows 7. I have no issues with windows 7 but I get the impression from the tenor of some posters that they don't know why they have it. In many cases its what came with their machine. Its not their decision but yet they seem to think we that didn't get it are somehow loosing out. I looked at it very hard and in depth and could not find a compelling reason to upgrade. I could have anyway but I decided not to. I also knew that a new OS would follow sooner rather than latter and that seemed a better opportunity to upgrade for me. Not once did I ever say one should not go with Windows 7. Nor have I discounted what others have said about it. What I have been very consistent about is defending the quality that Vista offers the user. That it has been the most stable OS I have ever used. That it offers for me everything Win 7 offers to a fair degree that they are to me sister OSs. Its been said that XP and Vista are similar when there is nothing in Vista that has much to do with XP. Or that its a bad OS. Its those ideas that motivate me. Its campaign by Apple to smear it and the people that did get ripped off by unscrupulous hardware makers that sold the unaware machines that were not intended for Vista have been a very big reason why I will counter a post that is negative about Vista when it is unjustified. Now we all have a choice to make whether to move on to Windows 8 or not. Because I was waiting for 8 its not a difficult choice for me. So far I have been impressed with Win 8. I plan on getting it as soon as I can. It may take me some time to get it fully up to where Vista is on this machine but I am prepared for that. So let us do what is best for each of us without finding fault with our decisions. In with the new out with old.
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John
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 21:50:13
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CakeAlexS
These were simply words of encouragement. Get over Vista. Maybe I was insulting to Vista, in which case I apologise for insulting an operating system. Maybe you don't like my writing style in which case I apologise as well.
But when we get into personal attacks - well that is something else. I certainly have not addressed anybody personally, and I notice somebody was attacked earlier for stating a simple fact.
But good idea - moving on. Getting over it!
(ps Vista still sucks).
Than it is fine for me to say get over Windows 7 right? The problem is it doesn't sound like words of encouragement but more an order. Than at the end you can't help from saying it sucks when I know better and so many others don't agree. Its as if you must agree with our OS choices in order for us to be in your eyes worthy. That is what seems rude. I use rude rather than what really comes to mind simply because I want to keep my posts on a level that is not insulting to others. You bought your computer from a off the self machine maker. I on the other hand built my own. I built it to run Vista and it does. Your opinion on the subject is not one that fills me with confidence when I wonder how much you really know about OSs and computers. Judging by your remarks it appears you can repeat what you have heard from others but know very little from you own research. In the end it comes down to what works and though you seen unable to believe us Vista works. It does not suck.
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Splat
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 21:51:57
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Ok back to a sensible conversation ;) - I shall avoid the personal attack speach. I'm not into personal attacks sorry. We are all going to need to get used to this in future - Why? Microsoft has learnt that Windows XP was so successful that few (business customers at least) really wanted to upgrade, especially to Vista (with all the bad press it had). People are still hanging on to XP even now because it was a great operating system. Now Windows 7 (unlike Vista) has been every bit as successful as XP (maybe more so?) they are worried that people will cling onto it just like XP users. So what MS will be doing to counteract this then is: 1) They will release operating systems with a faster turn around time because they know most people with their existing OS's and hardware won't upgrade until maybe a second revision of a new OS (if at all). So quicker they can get two OS's out the better then as this means more $$$. 2) The main game then is to make upgrading easy for the previous operating system, slightly more difficult for the one before that, and pretty much impossible for all OS's previously. Make users feel they have to upgrade... just like Apple does. 3) They are desperate to go on an Apple store type model. They want you hooked. They want your fridge/TV/radio/kettle to have Windows 8 so they get the opportunity to display their shop window everywhere. (Everything everywhere!). Lucky for Vista users this time around the hardware requirements for Win8 aren't huge. XP users might not be so lucky. Now when they release Windows 9 I suspect they will make it VERY HARD for Windows 7 users to upgrade. I wouldn't be surprised however that Windows 8 users will get Windows 9 upgrade for more or less free to keep them hooked on the cool aid (Microsoft Store), assuming that model works like Apple. That's the BIG reason why the upgrades are so cheap now anyway, they want you hooked..... and you will be. Get used to it. p.s. Vista still sucks, one of Microsoft's worst releases ... that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. I'm not ordering anybody to do anything.
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2012/10/24 22:40:29
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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bapu
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 22:07:58
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Here's my observation:
I built one DAW to run Win7 and bought a high end laptop (from ADK) that runs Win7.
My laptop builder recently said in these forums, "Stay away from Win 8, you don't need it."
I don't know if he's changed his mind in recent weeks but there you have it.
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gowi
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 22:09:00
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It is too bad cakewalk is making this business decision, however they are a small software developer and most likely don't have the resources and money to make X2 work on different platforms. For example, where's Sonar X2 for the Mac? (Hint... it doesn't exist for a reason...). Yes one can use boot camp, however it's not the same. Roland doesn't have a lot of extra money either, the last three years have extremely difficult for them financially.
It's sad, but a tough decision for an American company during very tough times in America now.
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Splat
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 22:17:29
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@bapu - yeah I've got Win 7 and I'm probably going to stick for it for now. I see no compelling reason to upgrade, but I probably will just before MS puts up the price (that will mean a cheaper and easier Windows 9 upgrade later). If I had Vista however that would be a different matter, I would go straight to Windows 8. It's cheap enough, it might not be an easy ride at first but it will avoid a lot of pain later on when devices and apps become more Win8 friendly and move away from Win7. No brainer. p.s. I forgot this time to say that Vista really sucks...
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2012/10/24 22:55:46
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Splat
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Re:future X2 update won't install in Vista???
2012/10/24 22:22:57
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@Gowi To add to what you said, yes it costs a fortune to develop on different platforms. Developers need to learn new skills, and more platforms means more testing and longer turn around times. I'm sure that's another reason why Cake dropped Vista, it's just one less to worry about. If I was working for their QA dept I'd be very happy about that decision (less testing), and if I was a .NET developer (Sonar is written in .NET, probably C#) I'd be very happy to expand my skillset with the Windows 8 platform. Besides I'd be using the latest version of the Visual Studio development tool which I'm sure has in built hatred for Vista built in as standard ;).
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2012/10/24 22:35:16
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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