guitar pickups

Hi all,

This might be better suited to a guitar forum if anyone can recommed one.

I know that talking about tone is very difficult. I've played Les Pauls for 25 years, first copies now the real thing - that's all I know. (I also have my "punk" guitar which is a crappy old thing with a single hot EMG on the bridge) Now I'm playing pop rock and I want a cleaner sound that has more of a twang and punch more like a Telecaster, with some chorus. Well at least I think that's what I think I want, I've never played any Fenders, as I think their sound is often too thin and I'd prefer not to buy a new guitar.

I was wondering if a new pickup would help. The Seymour Duncan SHPG-1 Pearly Gates has a lot more high tones than the other Seymours but it's hard to know how that compares. I have nickel covers, can I still use them?

Brett

Hey thanks, I like that. I might see if I can pick one up.

Brett

oops: not available in Japan

Yeah, the P-90 isn't a bad choice. It's more of a blues sounding pickup with a lot of scratchy treble bite to it. Dimarzio makes one called the Bluesbucker that looks and fits just like the humbucker you already have but sounds like the P-90. Another one of theirs I'd look at if I were you is the EJ Custom. Those will again look and fit your standard humbucker slot without alteration but will sound like a Gretch pickup.

+1. Tone isn't only in the pickups.

He didn't say he wanted to replicate a tele guys. He said he wanted a cleaner sound but specifically said that Fenders were too thin for the sound he was after, which is more like a tele with chorusing. I gather by that he means les lower mids like the Paul has and a bit more treble bite like a tele. I think Coldsteal's suggestion of a P-90 falls between the two quite well unless I'm missing something (which has been known to happen).

Hes was mainly just talking about replacing a pickup on his guitar

What he said was:

"I want a cleaner sound that has more of a twang and punch more like a Telecaster."

Fact is that a P-90 is NOT clean. It's terrifically growly, very mid-range, throaty as all hell unless you turn it down to clean it up. But it does NOT twang, not in the least, not at any volume. Punchy, yes. In-the-face punchy. A backhand-across-the-mouth punchy. Three-snaps-in-Z-formation punchy. Definitely punchier than Les Paul dual-coil humbuckers. But there's nothing clean, twangy or Telecasterish about a P-90.

Jimmy Page got a "cleaner" sound, a "thinner" sound from his Les Paul by coil tapping/splitting his humbuckers and rolling back the volume on the guitar pot. While that's a pretty involved solution, it's probably the best way to do it. Steve Morse does the same kind of thing. But even Jimmy page switched to a Tele when he wanted twang for something like "Communication Breakdown."

Hi all,
thanks this is exactly the sort of things I wanted to hear. I might have sounded more negative about Fenders than I meant. A guy was playing a Tele in the shop last night and it sounded great, but it's not want I want. I'm not really trying to turn my Gibson into a Fender.

I simply can't get a new guitar, I have two LPs, a steel string acoustic, Jazzmaster, and my punk guitar with an EMG on it and my little Tokyo apartment is already full. I'd love to pickup a Tele. mgh is right, I'm a small guy and so I use LP Studios but Japan has lot of great guitars ideal for smaller people and I really should think about getting a lighter guitar. My LPs are an Epiphone and a Gibson, and it's the Epiphone that I'm planning on modding.

I found this online last night. Amazing a ES335 Peavey for 30,000 yen, less than $US250!!!
http://www.soundhouse.co.jp/shop/ProductDetail.asp?Item=571^JF1EXPTR^^

I found a Gibson P-94T last night so this afternoon I'm going into the guitar area to see if I can find a P-94R, but now I've read up on the Humbucker from Hell I'm leaning towards that. If I accidently buy that Peavey guitar I'm going to track mgh down and punch him! (joking of course, mate)


Brett

Dat's a pretty sound there Steve. I'm impressed.

Les Pauls--bread & butter. I'd love to take the Larry Carlton route and have a custom made strat with a Les Paul scale and neck dimensions. The best of both worlds.

String gauge and scale length are also very important considerations when trying to achieve a particular sound, but they're often overlooked. Thicker (ie; tighter) strings will give more punch and twang than thinner (ie; looser) strings which will sound subjuctively "warmer." Same goes for Fender style 25.5 inch scale (again tighter strings) compared to Gibson 24.75 inch scale. As a side note, some manufacturers, notably PRS and Carvin, also offer 25 inch scale guitars which fall in between the two, "standards."

What I would advise if you're looking for a twangy sound out of a Les Paul:

1) Use a dual single coil pickup configuration of some kind. If you're trying to keep it looking fairly authentic then either P-90s or coil tapping are your best bets. I'd advise coil tapping as probably closer to what you're looking for though it is more complicated, as P-90's are fairly gritty sounding. One option however, would be to try out the "cap across the volume control mod" that keeps rolling off the volume from sacrificing high end. That may make P-90s with the volume down a bit an option. You could also try EMG H or HA model pickups. Those two models are single coil pickups in a humbucker housing (and *I think* EMG pickups are readily available in Japan, sorry if they aren't). You'd loose to ability to switch back to humbucker mode at the flip of a switch that coil tapping would give you, but they would probably sound more like real single coils (because they are). Coil tapping typically yeilds a little les ouput than a real single coil, and thus it sounds a little weaker, although this is a good deal less noticeable if you're using fairly high output humbuckers.


2) If you typically use 9-42 gauge strings, try moving up a size or two. 10-46 strings will yield a surprising amount of additional punch and bit of twang. There does get to a point though where thicker strings do begin to actually sound thicker and heavier, so I wouldn't go too far above that. (Think SRV, who used 13-58 gauge strings on his Strat... ouch.)


If you have some at least minor electronics skill, or you know a tech that works for sane rates, and you want a really versatile guitar then you may want to delve into the wonderful world of coil tapping. My Ibanez is set up with a 5-way 4-Pole switch and two humbuckers with the following tones available: 1-Bridge Humbucker; 2-The inner coils of both pickups; 3-Both Humbuckers; 4-The inner coil of the neck pickup by itself; 5-Neck Humbucker. That gives me the same choice of pickup combinations available on a Les Paul, plus a neck single coil and dual single coil sound which are the only two sounds I ever really use from a Strat. Does it sound exactly like a Les Paul or a Strat? No, but it sounds good, and sounding good is a great deal more important than sounding the same. Aside from that, there are so many permutations of Les Pauls and Strats out there that even Les Pauls and Strats often only sound "similiar" to what you would expect a Les Paul or Strat to sound like.

There's no such thing as a stupid question . I've learnt a lot from this thread. Looked up and studied about differents woods, different scales (that's why a Fender feels different!), coil tapping etc.

Gibson/Epiphone factory pickups are only two conductor so you can't tap them. I'd have to buy a new pickup - I might try that on my junk guitar if I can pick up and an old pick up somewhere and see what it's like. I'm handy with a soldering iron but opening up my guitar is scary.

I've searched all of Kanto (greater Tokyo) even contacted Gibson Japan and I think I found the very last Gibson P94R in Japan which is on the way to me by mail. That will drop straight into the guitar. I'll see how that sounds. I'm not looking for any one sound so as long as it sounds good I'll be happy. Now for internal surgery on my favourite guitar (the Epi).

Thanks for all the help

Brett

Well that was not much fun. If you look at this photo you can see the difference in height of the Epiphone and Gibson pickups.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1397/556871640_7efac07743_o.jpg

"An Epiphone 57CH humbucker pickup (left) and a Gibson P94R single coil pickup (right).

Notice the difference in the height of the lug, the Gibson requires much more space than the Epiphone. The Epiphone Les Paul Studio is thinner than the Gibson and so there is barely enough room to mount the P94R in a Epiphone LP Studio. "

If I mount the pickup as normal using the adjustment screws, it is going to touch the strings. The only option I have is to glue it directly to the base of the recess, which I think will give just enough clearance.

So currently I have a stringless single pickup guitar.

Brett

"So currently I have a stringless single pickup guitar."

On the other hand, you've now got the snazziest canoe paddle in town.

Hey, I'm guessing that the Epiphone doesn't have an arched top, so the route channel isn't as deep as an arched topped Les Paul. You could route it out a bit more to make the pickup fit, or look for a pickup manufacturer that has one to suit your needs.

Don't feel bad about it - it's very frustrating but nothing we could have worked out until I actually opended up the guitar and discovered this myself. Everything I read is that the Epiphones and Gibsons are the same design and hardware is interchangable. Obviously there is at least one exception to that rule. Frankly it's a dumb, I don't know why Gibson need over 3cm of lift in the pickups.

I don't think routing the guitar is possible as there isn't a lot of wood there. I might glue it in, that might work. Or modify the pickup, cut the lugs at the half way point, and then stick the two peices together over lapping. It may even be possible to attach the pickup directly to the plastic cover plate that screws into the face of the guitar.

The Epi Dots are nice too.

Brett