Helpful Replyhelp in buying audio interface

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jolaw
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2017/07/10 16:04:39 (permalink)

help in buying audio interface

Hi all :) I'm currently looking around for a audio interface to re-solve issues like latency , audio drop outs etc. I'm not doing any vocal or band live recordings . But rather to run vst plugins and wav loops in my pc . So more on instrumental  arrangements . Mine is a simple in a bedroom  set up . One musical keyboard connected to pc via usb , a old boss 8 tracks mixer and a pair of studio monitors.
 
Recently i sent an email to a music shop asking about focusrite 2nd gen 2i2 and 2i4 . The person replied me and recommended me to buy UAD interface as he feels focusrite will not resolve my problem . His reason :- Running vst plugins require process power from my computer and window tends to have noticeable latency problems . Thats why people go for mac . His last advice to me is to buy a mac pro if my budget permits .
 
Do i really need to buy a Uad interface or its possible to  buy a cheaper but reliable audio interface  ? I google uad interface price and its out of  my budget :( . I hope to keep my budget below $300 .However if i really need to top up more to re solve all these issues , then  i will do so but hopefully not as much as $450.
 
I'm using sonar platinum with third party plugins like kompete 11 ultimate , east west gold , AAS and rapture pro . My computer is Hp desktop :- Intel(R) Core (TM) i5-3550 cpu @ 3.30ghz , 16 gb ram . Operating on window 10 .
 
Oh yea , forgot to mention that i need it for future live performance as well . Looking to buy another host  either gig performer , cantabile or forte as the host .
 
Thanks !
Jo
 
 
 
#1
Slugbaby
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/10 16:37:56 (permalink)
I've got a Focusrite 2i2, and run a decent amount of VSTs.  As you can see from my signature, my PC setup is very similar to yours.
 
I'm very happy with it, and have no noticeable latency.  The trick is to balance your buffer settings to have a faster response when you're recording, and then a slower response when you need the processing power for synths and VSTs.
If you run your keyboard via USB, that may cause problems.  If you connect it to the Focusrite via MIDI cable, everything should go through the one I/O box.  The Focusrite 2i4 is the same as the 2i2 but with the added MIDI connections.
I recommend it highly for bedroom studios. 

http://www.MattSwiftMusic.com
 
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#2
...wicked
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/10 16:50:38 (permalink)
Without getting into specifics about computer horsepower, I would take that music shop advice with a grain of salt. 
 
Focusrite interface should be fine for what you're doing. I have one and use it for mobile work and it's great. The UAD interface is pretty sweet, and it does run it's own plugins off it's own processor which is what your shop guy is referring to, but your host machine should be able to process a bunch of VSTs without too much trouble.
 
When you get into live usage the priorities change but if you do your prep right it also shouldn't be a problem. I used Ableton for live stuff for a while but found it was more than I needed since I don't do a lot of remixing on the fly. I switched to Mainstage on my Mac laptop and mapped some buttons to song changes and it works great. Don't even need to look at the laptop anymore so I keep it mostly closed. It's great. Also all running off the Focusrite 2i2.

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#3
mmarton
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/10 17:11:23 (permalink)
You should have separate rendered mixdowns for live performance anyways so you shouldn't need a whole project with 10-20+ live processing tracks anyways.  In most cases a live DAW is effectively just a big iPod.  That said, the 3550 is adequate but if you're going to be recording/mixing with vsti's a lot or using a lot of plugins, more power is always better.  Your setup is fine for now but keep an eye out for updating the processor if you can.  

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#4
Zargg
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/10 17:34:15 (permalink)
Hi. I agree with the advice given so far. Focusrite is a good option. I'd go for the 2i4, as it has separate MIDI.
As for the Mac advice.
It just goes to show that the person replying didn't know what he / she was talking about 
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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#5
jolaw
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/10 17:50:34 (permalink)
Thanks guys for your great advice !
#6
MakerDP
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/10 19:04:36 (permalink)
...wicked
Without getting into specifics about computer horsepower, I would take that music shop advice with a grain of salt. 



Grain of salt? You are being too kind. That advice is pure garbage. Obviously looking for a big commission check. After he sells you the UA stuff and the Mac to go with it, he will sell you on Pro Tools, all new plugins, etc.
 
Go with the focusrite and you'll be very happy.
#7
Cactus Music
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/10 23:22:35 (permalink)
There is sort of a price point issue here as you have set a budget of $300.
You'll find all the interfaces in that price range are going to perform about the same and there's lots that will do the trick. You need to make the next jump in price point to around $500+ to afford brands like RME or Motu which seem to be the one's everyone recommends for solid performance and good quality drivers.
 
In the $150 price point there are 3 that seem to work well for Sonar and then for a few dollars more you get more in/outs. The performance will stay the same until you make that $500 jump. 
 
The Scarlett 2i4 https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Scarlet2i4G2
The Tascam us2x2 https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/US2X2
The Stienberg UR 22 MkII    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UR22MKII  
 
My gripe against the Focurite is they use Buss power which is prone to issues with some Phantom powered mikes. The other 2 have both buss power and a wall wart.  There are other brands but these 3 are the ones you hear the best feedback from Sonar users about.
 
Make a list of the features you want now and in the future. It's nice to have the extra inputs if you play a few different instruments. This way they can stay plugged in.
I wrote a short blog with a shopping list  click on the  Audio interface Shopping List  tab
http://www.cactusmusic.ca/Recording.htm
 
 
 
 
 

Johnny V  
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#8
bitflipper
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/11 01:25:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg 2017/07/31 18:32:46
Why can't music store staff just man up and say "I don't know"? It doesn't seem to matter what you ask them (trying to stump music store salespeople is a personal hobby), they'll make up an answer if they have to. It's possible guy was not being disingenuous but just not knowledgeable, but my guess is he saw an opportunity to sell you a high-margin device for a nice commission.
 
First of all, the audio interface has little to do with latency. Going from a budget interface to a high end model will at best buy you a millisecond or two. If you're having a hard time playing soft synths now, you're probably currently dealing with 20-30 ms latency or more. Get that below 10 ms and you shouldn't have any problems unless you're a drummer. A new interface won't do that for you. So don't buy an audio interface, it's not what you need.
 
I use Cantabile without an external interface, nothing more than the five-dollar Realtek chip in the laptop. It works fine. One less thing to pack around to gigs.
 
BTW, Focusrite is good stuff for the money. So's Roland. The next significant step up (e.g. RME, Lynx, Apogee, etc.) will run you 4 to 5 times as much.
 
 


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#9
Slugbaby
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/11 13:33:19 (permalink)
bitflipper
Why can't music store staff just man up and say "I don't know"? It doesn't seem to matter what you ask them (trying to stump music store salespeople is a personal hobby), ....

 
I think you've got a great theme for a YouTube channel there.

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tlw
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/11 18:30:51 (permalink)
jolaw
Hi all :) I'm currently looking around for a audio interface to re-solve issues like latency , audio drop outs etc. I'm not doing any vocal or band live recordings . But rather to run vst plugins and wav loops in my pc . So more on instrumental  arrangements . Mine is a simple in a bedroom  set up . One musical keyboard connected to pc via usb , a old boss 8 tracks mixer and a pair of studio monitors.
 
Recently i sent an email to a music shop asking about focusrite 2nd gen 2i2 and 2i4 . The person replied me and recommended me to buy UAD interface as he feels focusrite will not resolve my problem . His reason :- Running vst plugins require process power from my computer and window tends to have noticeable latency problems . Thats why people go for mac . His last advice to me is to buy a mac pro if my budget permits .
 


I used a Windows DAW for years, over the last year I've been almost entirely Mac based for reasons I won't bore you with.

That advice you were given is very, very bad advice. A Windows PC can give latency results as low as a Mac, but Windows is likely to need some configuration to get there, especially with power saving options, core parking and maybe things like disabling the wi-fi when using the DAW. If you search these forums for "latency", "dpc" and "latencymon" you'll find lots of information about this. Macs are simpler to set up and have useful things like built-in MIDI networking (if you need such a thing, most people don't) - but they cost a lot more than an equivalent PC.

The current Mac Pro (the cylindrical black thing) is rather outdated, to put it mildly, and not the best Mac for audio work either. The i7 MacBook Pro is good, and an iMac configured with an i7 processor will beat the current Mac Pro easily for almost all DAW purposes. Apple have announced a new "iMac Pro" to be launched in December, what the final spec will be isn't settled yet but it's likely to be expensive. It will almost certainly be far better than the current PRo, which really should have been retired from Apple's range or seriously updated a few years ago.

No, you don't need a UAD interface or external plugin processor either. The UAD processors can be nice things to have, and do take some processing load off the computer itself but that's really only relvant if your computer can't keep up with what you're doing and for some reason you don't want to have to "freeze" tracks to reduce processor loading. Or if you decide to get a UAD because really like the sound of UAD plugins, of course.

For your budget and based on what you say you are doing, a basic Focusrite interface will almost certainly be adequate. If you want an interface with a reputation for low latency, solid drivers and good manufacturer support take a look at the RME range, especially the Babyface if you don't need many inputs. Though unless you are recording "real" instruments or vocals you don't really need mic preamps of RME quality because you won't be using them anyway.

My advice would be to get an interface that has its own power supply, not powered by the USB connection becasuse they tend to give lower latency and be of better general quality, and to consider getting one with a couple more inputs than you need right now in case you find at some point you do have a use for the inputs.

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#11
kitekrazy1
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/11 18:56:10 (permalink)
Slugbaby
bitflipper
Why can't music store staff just man up and say "I don't know"? It doesn't seem to matter what you ask them (trying to stump music store salespeople is a personal hobby), ....

 
I think you've got a great theme for a YouTube channel there.




 I hate that. I worked in the optical business and some customers would try that. The difference is they really didn't know what they were asking. 
 
 I tend to have compassion towards GC employees.  Some of them are probably going to recording school and there knowledge outside of Macs is very limited.  At Sweetwater you have sales engineers.  At GC you have people who don't want to work at fast food places or follow a dress code. 

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#12
kitekrazy1
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/11 19:07:48 (permalink)
jolaw
Hi all :) I'm currently looking around for a audio interface to re-solve issues like latency , audio drop outs etc. I'm not doing any vocal or band live recordings . But rather to run vst plugins and wav loops in my pc . So more on instrumental  arrangements . Mine is a simple in a bedroom  set up . One musical keyboard connected to pc via usb , a old boss 8 tracks mixer and a pair of studio monitors.
 
Recently i sent an email to a music shop asking about focusrite 2nd gen 2i2 and 2i4 . The person replied me and recommended me to buy UAD interface as he feels focusrite will not resolve my problem . His reason :- Running vst plugins require process power from my computer and window tends to have noticeable latency problems . Thats why people go for mac . His last advice to me is to buy a mac pro if my budget permits .
 
Do i really need to buy a Uad interface or its possible to  buy a cheaper but reliable audio interface  ? I google uad interface price and its out of  my budget :( . I hope to keep my budget below $300 .However if i really need to top up more to re solve all these issues , then  i will do so but hopefully not as much as $450.
 
I'm using sonar platinum with third party plugins like kompete 11 ultimate , east west gold , AAS and rapture pro . My computer is Hp desktop :- Intel(R) Core (TM) i5-3550 cpu @ 3.30ghz , 16 gb ram . Operating on window 10 .
 
Oh yea , forgot to mention that i need it for future live performance as well . Looking to buy another host  either gig performer , cantabile or forte as the host .
 
Thanks !
Jo
 
 
 




 I'd also take a look at what software is more resource heavy and make changes.  EW stuff is not resource friendly.
He may be right about Macs being lower latency but Apple works towards making your hardware obsolete while Windows works to keeping legacy devices active.  I'm still running M-Audio legacy devices on W10 while that would not be possible with any recent Mac.
 Also in the future build your own systems which rules out Mac.  The return value is far better.  
 
 Usually "sales" people  like that have a limited world on the Windows side.  
 

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#13
AT
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/12 14:09:42 (permalink)
Sales people are sales people and get paid for selling you stuff.  They aren't evil, but buyer beware.  If you'll buy a more expensive item, that is not their fault.  They aren't hired as experts.  Most are simply musicians.
 
As far as latency, that is on the interface drivers, mostly, and incompatibilities within your own system (once you've checked your settings for recording). 
 
If you are worried about latency, my real-world experience finds that the TASCAM US-20x20 is a good buy. Compared on 2 systems against a UH-7000 (tascam again) I could get down to 4+ ms RT on USB 3, while USB 2 on both units were 9-11 ms, as was the UH-7000.  My interface before was a TC Konnekt FW at about 10 ms.  So, on my system the USB 3 interface showed significant cut in latency on an I 5 (my desktop I 7 doesn't have USB 3).  Note, none of the cheaper TASCAM units uses USB 3.
 
Although it retails for $400, it is a good quality, professional equipped piece.  Conversion and pre quality it great, latency is low, 8 pres + 2 line inputs + coax + optical digital in/outs.  It has all the in/outs you'll need at home so there is room to grow before you get a new interface, and you'll always need more ins.

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#14
batsbrew
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/12 14:29:41 (permalink)
i suggest you keep saving up until you can get a quality piece.
 
otherwise,
you will end up selling it for a loss when you decide you really need a better piece.
 

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#15
Slugbaby
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/12 15:05:59 (permalink)
batsbrew
i suggest you keep saving up until you can get a quality piece.
 
otherwise,
you will end up selling it for a loss when you decide you really need a better piece.
 


Perhaps.


From the other side of the coin, I went cheap first. I bought a $200 Focusrite and was very happy.  If I wasn't, i would have sold it at a loss and attributed that as a 'lesson learned'. I would know exactly what was lacking in the cheapie and what I needed to focus on when buying the higher-end model.
It's a risk, but it sometimes pays off...

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#16
JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/24 02:36:23 (permalink)
jolaw
 
I'm using sonar platinum with third party plugins like kompete 11 ultimate , east west gold , AAS and rapture pro . My computer is Hp desktop :- Intel(R) Core (TM) i5-3550 cpu @ 3.30ghz , 16 gb ram . Operating on window 10 .

Though it would seem you've defined your requirements fairly well, you actually haven't. This is because there are lots of people using those same plugins. Some of them get along just fine with a budget interface ($300 is a budget interface price point IMO) while others simply could not do what they do without more interface muscle. 

In other words if you're using 3 or 4 individual plugins per project and not much on the effect side of things, chances are you won't tax the abilities of any interface in your price range. But if you like to load up the synth rack with 6 or 10 modules and the load up the output racks with lots of effects, most interfaces in your price range are going to struggle to keep up. 

Which is why the UAD stuff gets recommended. Because those interfaces bring their own effects processing horsepower to the party thus lightening the load on your CPU. As has been mentioned, the RME stuff is also very good but comes with a price tag to match quality and ability of the gear. 

You generally get what you pay for when it comes to interfaces. If your projects tend to be on the light side and/or you're willing to make good use of freezing tracks when required, you can get away with just about any interface. If your projects are heavy and you don't want to freeze much or at all, you're either going to have to adjust your budget or your expectations IMO.

 
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#17
emeraldsoul
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/30 14:47:01 (permalink)
batsbrew
i suggest you keep saving up until you can get a quality piece.
 
otherwise,
you will end up selling it for a loss when you decide you really need a better piece.
 


This ^^^
 
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LOSTinSWIRL
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Re: help in buying audio interface 2017/07/30 15:26:11 (permalink)
I have a Focusrite 18i20 2nd gen and love it. Had a Roland Quad capture before that but returned it. Just recently found a deal on a Foocusrite 2i4 2nd gen. Using that one for a mobile unit. I used both with Windows 10 and no problems yet. I would recommend Sweetwater as where to buy it. When I was having trouble with my Quad they went above and beyond to fix the problem and they made the return easy as pie. Which is when I got the 18i20 from them.Just a lot of choices out there to be made. I probably wont ever use all the ins and outs but it is nice to know they are there if need be.  Anyway hope this might help in your decisions. 
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