how to split a stereo bus to 2 tracks for Mid Side

I've been using two instances of Voxego MSED and inserting stuff in between that has seperate left and right controls. I'm trying to figure out how to use SONAR to route a stereo submix That I've encoded to M/S to two seperate mono tracks so that I can insert effects on discrete right (mid) and left (side) channels.

I'm demoing some of the all in one stuff but I'd enjoy more flexiblity.

Any thoughts?

thanks,
mike

So how do I take music on a Stereo bus and send ONLY the left channel to another bus and ONLY the right channel to another bus?

I set up 2 sends and then realized the pan controls weren't going to get me where I wanted to go.

So if you want to split a track or bus why not create another pair of busses. Send your stereo track to each of the busses but then pan the busses one hard left the other hard right that should let you process just the material you want.

Does that split the channel or send everything to one side?

It's two track (stereo or MS stero) content.... I don't want to send both tracks to one side... I want to split the track to two discrete streams. In (near) real time

This is the point at which I said "wait a minute???" last night.

I found a few refernces where Middleman says he doing something like tis with Channel tools.

I'll have to test some more to see what happens when you pan.

Thanks everyone,
mike

Hi papa,

FWIW, I want to do it real time... otherwise I'll just try the mid side stuff after the fact as a "mastering" stage in a 2 track wave editor.

As I say I have been demoing some of the stuff that does M/S EQ and compression.

NuGen SEQ1 and SEQ2,

I set up an insert with two instances of Voxengo MSED book ending a Kaejerhaus Dual channel graphic EQ... it worked great on the master bus... but I like more flexibility and better EQ.

I guess VC64 has M/S compression.

I was hoping to place my favorite compresors mix and match on the mid or side.

I am really just experimenting and listening... nothing too serious yet.

I am experiemneting with Channel tools at the moment to see if you can split discretely with it. MSED has a specific stereo to M/S "encode" function that makes the Left channel mid and the right chanel side. Those are the channels I want to discretely send to two seperate buses.

Channel Tools doesn't have something specifically equal to the MSEDs "encode" function but it seems like you can use the various controls to get there. I am going to fudge through that right now.

I have sent an email to Middleman asking for help in understanding how he is using Channel Tools to do his MS work.

I just don't see how panning in SONARs standard panner is the same as splitting?

Am I missing something?

very best,
mike

I know I know... I'm just having fun.

I have the Ozone variant that came with SoundForge 9 and it seemed too integrated. 80% of what it does doesn't fill a need for me.

I did get a chance to look at this:




which suggests that the following may work:




I was using a demo of NuGen visualizer and now it's timing out... I'd like to inspect the signal at various points because it seems to my ears that Voxengo MSED may do a better job of seperating the mid and side from a left right two track image. I can imagine a few ways to use both MSED and channel tools. I'd like to do a test where I used both Channel Tools and MSED to see the results.

I'm holding off buying Visualizer until I decide If I want the SEQ Master suite. It sure sounded real nice yesterday.

thanks for the input,
mike

Does that split the channel or send everything to one side?

Mike, it splits (isolates) them. It does exactly this!

So how do I take music on a Stereo bus and send ONLY the left channel to another bus and ONLY the right channel to another bus?

It'll send the left side to a 'left' mono bus and the right side to a 'right' mono bus if you want or it will send just the left or just the right to a stereo bus.

One side is separated out on the first send the second on the second all in real time. Nothing gets as far as the bus output which is why you do it pre-fade the split is handled by the sends.

A good example of the split in action is on Jonas' mixing template where he splits a sub master bus into isolated left and right buses before the 'two bus'.

You are overthinking it here me thinks, just download his template it's already done for you.

Here's a link to it, bottom link on his signature.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.asp?m=1725773

ORIGINAL: mike_mccue

"It'll send the left side to a 'left' mono bus and the right side to a 'right' mono bus if you want or it will send just the left or just the right to a stereo bus."

Ok, :-)

I'm Downloading the template. 7MB???

I'm reading thru the help files for "SENDS" and I don't see anything that indicates that they are not stereo or surround sends. I don't see a thing about splitting... or any explanation of the possibilities you are describing.

I'll look at the template.

best regards,
mike

Cool, just look at the last 3 buses before the Master (two) Bus.

Ok, just got back.

Sounds like you have it. I do the same thing, actually I had another layer which is also front to back layers. Here is my approach, similar to yours.

Route everything to two M/S subs, one uses the Channel Tool for M/S splitting and becomes the side channel on output. The second sub uses the Channel Tool for M/S and becomes the mid channel output.

Both of these are routed to the Master buss which has the channel tool, once again, for decoding back to left and right.

On the two MS busses above I process the side output a little brighter with an EQ and the mid output with some compression to created a more solid and upfront middle. Very light but generally an 1176 or precision buss compressor from UAD depending on the style of music.

I make sure the reverb and delay outputs are routed to the sides only buss, not the middle. This keeps the middle clean and solid i.e. focused.

On top of all this, I also create a front and back sub channels which means, if a track is routed to back, it gets an overall darker master EQ and if it goes to front, its a hair brighter on that EQ. These are routed to the mid/side matrix above then to the master.

In another scenario, I built a parallel compression matrix which implements Michael Brauers frequency compression technique on various elements of the mix. Definitely for more aggressive music.

I know I know... I'm just having fun.

I have the Ozone variant that came with SoundForge 9 and it seemed too integrated. 80% of what it does doesn't fill a need for me.

I did get a chance to look at this:

That is not Ozone 4 you need to check it out. What came with SF is a only a part of Ozone 3. Ozone 4 does mid/side processing

ORIGINAL: John

I have the Ozone variant that came with SoundForge 9 and it seemed too integrated. 80% of what it does doesn't fill a need for me.

That is not Ozone 4 you need to check it out. What came with SF is a only a part of Ozone 3. Ozone 4 does mid/side processing

The overall "Ozone" size of GUI, format, and other features are very similar right? If you count the M/S (which I was aware of... heck it's one reason I'm test listening today) I'm still at my original appraisal of how Ozone addresses my needs.

I knew I only had Ov3 crippleware edition but I didn't see much difference in the upgrades.

Otherwise it seems to be a great program. I've used my SoundForge version a few times... just to see if I'd enjoy it etc.



I am turned on by Nugen Visualizer.


John, does the MS processing "transcend" the Ozone panels? Is the M/S "intra-feature"? Or does it fold back to right/left in between Ozone Effects such as EQ and compression?


thanks,
mike

John, does the MS processing "transcend" the Ozone panels? Is the M/S "intra-feature"? Or does it fold back to right/left in between Ozone Effects such as EQ and compression?

It is on a per module instance. EQ and Comp have independent abilities. One thing that you should consider is that Ozone 4 is as different from Ozone 3 as 3 was from 2. 2 sounded not very good. It is a far more competent mastering plugin then 3. As good as Ozone 3 was 4 is infinitely better.

Below is the features of 4 that are new. What you can't get from this is how good it sounds.

New Features in Ozone 4


If you're moving up from Ozone 3 to Ozone 4, we thank you for your continued support! Here are some changes and new features that you'll find in Ozone 4!

New Intelligent Workflow

Updated Interface

The Ozone interface has been redesigned with larger font, larger controls, and a 20% larger edit window. By making Ozone’s modules easier to work with than ever before, we have expanded on Ozone’s reputation for clean, intuitive design. Some of the new features include Blinking Bypass Indicators, Module Bypassed Overlays, and Mini-spectrum Bypass and Solo boxes. These improvements make it easy to tell when a module is bypassed so you don't mistakenly start modifying controls for a module that isn't active. are all focused on making Ozone even easier and more intuitive than ever before.

More Presets

Ozone 4 has been updated to include over 140 professionally designed presets. Sorted into a new folder hierarchy, these presets cover a wide range of styles including Rock/Pop, Hip-Hop, Latin, Classical, Country, and Reggae. We have also included presets that are designed to help with specific problems areas or common situations like drum treatments, acoustic guitar treatments, and vocal treatments.

New Preset Manager

Ozone 4 has a completely new Preset Manager that includes category based Preset folders for sorting and storing your favorite presets. Some of the default preset categories include "General Purpose Mastering", Genre-Specific Mastering", "Post and Broadcast", as well as "Utility Presets" for handling specific problems. The Preset Manager also now docks and undocks from the main plug-in interface. This allows you to relocate the Preset Manager on the screen and still have access to all of Ozone's other parameters.

MacroPresets and MacroFaders

Within the new Preset Manager we have added a new concept for preset design that includes additional sliders with conceptual names like warmth, width, or bass to get the results you want quickly. This innovative approach to preset design will instantly improve your workflow. It will also greatly increase your ability to intuitively refine Ozone's standard presets and get you closer to that specific "sound" you are looking for. MacroPresets include additional sliders that when selected and adjusted, provide instant control over several linked parameters all at once. These powerful new sliders are called MacroFaders. Every Ozone parameter can be fully controlled by custom MacroFaders.

Global and Module Amount Controls

We have also added new Module Amount controls to the outside of Ozone's interface for each individual module. These sliders let you adjust the output signal for each of Ozone’s individual modules with a single convenient amount control. For example, the Module Amount control for the Paragraphic EQ allows you to dial in a more aggressive or subtler EQ curve. This same concept has been added to Ozone's main output signal as a Global Amount control. Beyond just A/B'ing your mix, this slider lets you intelligently add more or less Ozone processing to you entire mix. You can quickly hear the overall effect of a more aggressive or more subtle approach to your mastering session.

New Processing Innovations

IRCâ„¢ Loudness Maximizer/ Intelligent II Mode

Ozone 4 includes a new processing mode in the Loudness Maximizer called "Intelligent II". This mode is optimized to preserve transients, so they sound sharper and clearer in the output signal, even when aggressive limiting is taking place. The new Intelligent II Loudness Maximizer mode listens to incoming audio to handle transients with unprecedented sharpness and clarity while boosting the loudness of your mixes. Try this on your mixes and hear the difference.

Multiband Harmonic Exciter/ Warm Mode

We have updated the Multiband Harmonic Exciter to include a new "Warm" mode. The Warm mode is similar to the tonal characteristics of a tube model, but it is unique because it generates only even harmonics that decay quickly.

Mid-Side processing

This is an extraordinary new feature in Ozone 4. At the mastering stage, Mid-Side processing separates an ordinary stereo recording into its center and side elements (mid-side). This allows you to apply Ozone's processing to separate areas of your soundstage. The results are better sound quality and tonal control across your entire soundstage. The addition of Mid-Side processing brings a whole new dimension of power to Ozone. This feature is available in the following modules:

Paragraphic EQ

Mastering Reverb

Multiband Harmonic Exciter

Multiband Dynamics

Intelligent Crossovers

Ozone's new Intelligent crossovers listen to the incoming audio signal and automatically set the optimal crossover cutoff points for Ozone’s multiband modules. Ozone 4 uses an innovative new "Learn" function to intelligently search for a natural place to set your crossover cutoffs. To use this, just stream audio through the plug-in and click "Learn". Once Ozone has found a stable place for the cutoffs, the learn function will disable automatically. It couldn't be easier. This can help you get better results faster when using the multiband modules in Ozone.

Hybrid Crossover

We've added a new Hybrid crossover processing mode. This new perfect reconstruction IIR analog crossover is designed to reduce phase distortion and frequency distortion found in other analog crossovers, while maintaining precise crossover points and the warm characteristics found in analog crossovers.

Optimized Performance

We have newly updated and expanded processing algorithms in almost every module within Ozone. They are completely optimized for today's low-latency DAW environments.

Automatic Gain when bypassed

There are many modules in Ozone that can affect the overall or perceived level of the mix. This makes it hard to compare "Ozone on" to "Ozone bypassed" and understand exactly what processing is being applied. When the new Automatically match effective gain feature is engaged, Ozone automatically sets the amount of gain to be added when Ozone is in bypass mode. Then when you A/B your settings in Ozone (Ozone on vs Ozone off), the apparent volume will remain the same.