Helpful ReplyiLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)"

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azslow3
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2019/01/02 22:19:10 (permalink)

iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)"

Since the forum is not yet closed, there is software section and there was related discussions....
 
Several days before New Year (was it 29...? I do not remember exactly) I have tried to run "ilok cloud" protected plug-in.
Guess what... the service was down . "Can not connect to the service. We do not know when it is back." dialog in the iLock License manager. I have tried to login in the web: "incorrect username or password". I have tried to reset the password: "internal server error, the team is informed".
 
Thinking that is somehow my computer or connection related I have attached to a friend in US. Guess what... the same.
 
So whatever people claim how good all these authorizations are, I am glad that at least my new DAW will never be "lo(c)k"ed.
For Cakewalk staff I still have X3, older Z3TA2 and DimPro.
 
I know that I can not avoid online/hardware authorizations completely, but that incident has remind me to re-check authorization conditions for the software I use.
 
PS. I am not and will never use iLok software. I just had to work with one plug-in to help other users. Bad luck? May be.
 
 

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#1
bdickens
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/02 23:10:40 (permalink)
Lots of people use iLok without issue.

Byron Dickens
#2
TheMaartian
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/03 00:52:21 (permalink)
I use the PC authorization software with no problems.
 
I have NEVER been able to use the USB dongle successfully.
 
Anybody wanna buy my Slate licenses?
post edited by TheMaartian - 2019/01/03 16:27:34

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#3
azslow3
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/03 08:19:40 (permalink)
bdickens
Lots of people use iLok without issue.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1243662-ilok-server-unavailable.html
 
That is NOT on iLok site/forum/incident list. I have not found the place on which such problems are/should be reported. iLok obviously does not want any forums or discussion. BTW iLok service team was "on holidays" till the new year. That statement I have found. So no telephone support as well.
 
So in summary:
* someone want be protected against piracy...
* you pay extra money for that protection
* that protection charge you yet another $$$ for "safety" in case something goes wrong ("Zero downtime", etc.)
* they are free to serve you... or not serve you... in the last case that is YOUR problem.
* the statement "we can not say how long it takes" is HARDCODED into the program (!) and they have no problem go on holiday from 21.12 to 2.1.
 

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#4
JohnKenn
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/04 00:24:25 (permalink)
Thank you azslow, for a painful reminder.
 
Ilok is getting more reliable although the curse of what you may face in a degrading, begging battle to vendors if your computer fails is alive and well. This regarding the no dongle option. Smooth sailing until your hard drive goes south. Lose or smash a physical dongle and the joyful experience may be about the same. Multiple times they have told me I am up **** creek. Fuk off and take my problems to someone who cares. I can't even get them to remove computers that no longer exist from the garbage profile I've collected over time.
 
Worst experience similar to yours was a failure on a Friday night before a holiday and no support. Call back Monday during normal business hours. Problem was that a beautiful couple from Ghana came here half way around the world to do an album of music with ethnic instruments and poetry. Failure took down the DAW as well which kept bumping into the now forbidden plugins. Too ignorant at the time to know how to work around their block. Trip wasted on that one account and they left with a bad taste of what I had promised would be a beautiful experience in western digital technology.
 
Not a big fan of Ilok. May work well currently until you need help in a crisis.
 
John
 
#5
JohnKenn
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/05 23:28:32 (permalink)
Guys,
 
Sorry for an anti Ilok tirade, but facing it again. If I bought into the system maybe should have gone with a physical dongle and treated it like egg shells. I went with the non dongle approach for several vrsti's and it has been a degrading nightmare over the years. Too dense to have learned my lesson. Third time is the charm for me. No more of this s**t.
 
About to repeat this fiasco since my laptop is nearing death from hard drive failure. Bios works fine but win 10 toasted after a failed attempt to automatically upgrade on top of hardware weaknesses that were already there. There go the licenses that can't be transferred because the licensed computer is toast unless I can resurrect. This issue has not been adequately brought up in discussions about the beauty and simplicity of non dongle Ilok.
 
Got to get my begging rags on and kiss the feet of each vendor to allow this mortal sinner to get another license. Convince them that I am not trying to steal an extra authorization.
 
No dongle crap is cool and painless until you get a hardware failure that you may be able to fix but makes your computer unrecognized by Ilok. If you got this problem and contact them, their compassion to you as the little guy will bring you to tears of appreciation. Been there, done that too many times.
 
John
#6
Just Another Bloke
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/06 18:31:33 (permalink)
ilok trouble free here since day one (over 8 years now) and that includes 3 system upgrades (XP -> Win 7 -> Win 10) and once complete fresh re-install.
 
I keep a spare on hand I do pay $30/year disaster recovery plan fee. 
#7
Just Another Bloke
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/06 18:34:09 (permalink)
Oh yeah, I did have some glitches along the way with installing updates to the desktop app (which did not interrupt operation) and one older plugin stopped working but the vendor provided an replacement installer within 24 hours f my contact to them.
#8
JohnKenn
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/07 03:12:26 (permalink)
So are you doing the hardware dongle? Way more forgiving if you don't lose or break it, and should in theory translate from breakdown to resurrection if needed across any dissimilar configuration.
 
No dongle Ilok is far more unforgiving if you have gone this route. Happy camper until something breaks down on the PC that carries your virtual Ilok licenses.
 
Article from awhile back said that there are like 12 components of the computer that the license carves into stone if you are going with the non dongle option. Change something critical as in replacing a hard drive or motherboard due to failure and the computer is no longer the original computer. Up s**t creek without a paddle. Learned this the hard way more than once.
 
I can understand where Ilok support is coming from in a sick sense. My word as a software pirate is not to be trusted. Take up my issue with the developer who has to determine if I am trying to rip them off or not. They are there to protect the developer, not to help me.
 
About to get my fourth defunct computer added to the tragedy list with Ilok licenses burned up that will never see the light of day. Ilok says they WILL NOT remove a failed computer from the garbage profile or reset licenses already burned on my word that the computer no longer exists. Live with it or take my business elsewhere.
 
I was given the creative option of trying to repair the failed components and log in again with the original configuration in which case they will migrate licenses or remove the dead computer. Got to find my sandpaper to grind out pits on the hard drive of one. Probably not worth 500 dollars to diagnose and repair a failed 50 dollar motherboard. They did give me an option however.
 
Thanks Ilok. Good, compassionate, helpful advice.
John
 
 
#9
bdickens
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/07 20:57:22 (permalink)
iLok only provides the method for managing software licenses. They do not issue them. It is up to the individual software developers to determine when, if and how many authorizations to give you.

Byron Dickens
#10
JohnKenn
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/08 02:44:52 (permalink)
Byron,
You are correct and it is my naive approach to how I would want thing to be done that got me in the current mess.
In an ideal world, Ilok would have some threshold of sanity before it eradicates your licenses.
 
Means that if your hard drive, your motherboard fails, there should be enough evidence that you have everything else the same and not trying to rip off the developer to get another activation.
 
Frustrated here and fired up the warez cracks for only those programs that I have legitimately paid for. Slow and painful rebuilding of the system but for the most part, cut the begging ritual short.
 
Don't have no crack for the AIR programs, like Hybrid, Xpand, etc, but these guys the most quick responsive to reset authorizations if you have a catastrophic failure. Many other vendors not so nice when you are down in the pits. Nothing money can't solve if you are denied by many of them.
 
If your computer is immortal, Ilok no dongle is great. If not, do the hardware thing. Will save a lot of grief that will be dumped on you in an instant when the hardware failure happens.
 
John
#11
bdickens
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/08 02:49:05 (permalink)
In an ideal world, thieves wouldn't steal intellectual property.


So don't get mad at the vendors, get mad at the pirates.

Byron Dickens
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JohnKenn
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/08 03:12:28 (permalink)
Again,
You are correct.
I try to imagine some young guy or girl trying to make a paycheck to feed the kids or keep the electricity on.  Sales supporting their existence going down because someone has easy access to a crack not paid for. This is why the visionary folks at Alchemy went down. We all ultimately suffer directly of indirectly from the curse of software piracy.
 
My beef is with systems like Ilok that have not evolved a middle of the world protocol that can differentiate between an honest hard drive failure and some rip off attempt. This would be easy with current technology, but we are where we are at and the little guy suffers.
John
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azslow3
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/08 18:46:11 (permalink)
bdickens
iLok only provides the method for managing software licenses. They do not issue them. It is up to the individual software developers to determine when, if and how many authorizations to give you.

They provide the management for issued licenses. You point could be an argument... in case iLok by technology can not do something. But there is a prove they technically can, they do if you pay them.
 
bdickens
So don't get mad at the vendors, get mad at the pirates.

Vendors can be mad from pirates, that is a valid point. But do I as a customer suffer from pirates? No.
Vendors shift the consequences of piracy to me with the logic:
"we have problems with pirates, well... let our customers suffer from piracy instead of us".
I first pay for the protection system and then suffer from it. I do not need it and that is vendor's choice, not my.
And so the vendor is responsible for my problems, not the weather/cat/child which can destroy a dongle, not a broken component in my computer which can be replaced under warrantee and for sure not some abstract "pirates".
 
I can speak for myself only. Have I bought any program because it was copy protected and had no crack? No!
I have bought the first license for Sonar because it had NO online nor dongle protection at that time. That was
deal breaking argument for me.
 

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
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#14
Grem
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/08 22:11:15 (permalink)
I will never give one penny of my money to Pace (iLock) again. Never.
 
I understand completely what azlow and John are saying. And I agree with them.
 
Slate never got a dime of my money. Neither did Soft Tube. Or any other software vendor that uses ilock. I take my money elsewhere.
 
And I have not had any software authorization problems. And I got a lot.

Grem

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#15
abacab
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/09 01:22:10 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bdickens 2019/01/09 03:16:11
The problem begins with those that think everything should be free.  Nobody works for free.

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#16
bdickens
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/09 03:15:09 (permalink)
azslow3
bdickens
iLok only provides the method for managing software licenses. They do not issue them. It is up to the individual software developers to determine when, if and how many authorizations to give you.

They provide the management for issued licenses. You point could be an argument... in case iLok by technology can not do something. But there is a prove they technically can, they do if you pay them.
 
bdickens
So don't get mad at the vendors, get mad at the pirates.

Vendors can be mad from pirates, that is a valid point. But do I as a customer suffer from pirates? No.
Vendors shift the consequences of piracy to me with the logic:
"we have problems with pirates, well... let our customers suffer from piracy instead of us".
I first pay for the protection system and then suffer from it. I do not need it and that is vendor's choice, not my.
And so the vendor is responsible for my problems, not the weather/cat/child which can destroy a dongle, not a broken component in my computer which can be replaced under warrantee and for sure not some abstract "pirates".
 
I can speak for myself only. Have I bought any program because it was copy protected and had no crack? No!
I have bought the first license for Sonar because it had NO online nor dongle protection at that time. That was
deal breaking argument for me.
 



I'll just bet you have locks on your doors.

Byron Dickens
#17
azslow3
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/09 08:58:14 (permalink)
abacab
The problem begins with those that think everything should be free.  Nobody works for free.

I was not claiming everything should be free. Just that things should not be ridiculously locked with a possibility it breaks without any real reason and zero responsibility from the company which delivers you the product.
iLok provides the service they call "cloud", right? And it was not working world wide for continuous time. Do you think that is ok?
 
Your guitar is not stop working after one string replacement. Yes, it can happened the broken string was your fault. But you have replaced it. Now the pickup has noticed that and no longer produce the sound, with the explanation "there are pirates which copy our guitars, we have to protect ourselves".
 
bdickens
I'll just bet you have locks on your doors.

Sure. But does the lock on your door has following properties?
1) if for some reason the lock is broken, you are no longer allowed to use your home. And you are not allowed to call the lock repair service till you have subscribed to such service prior the accident happened.
2) every time you use your key, the lock is going online. If it can not go online, you get the message "sorry, the service is down. We have no idea for how long".
3) the door key is no longer working once you have replaced any window. And there is no way to re-enable it.
 
 

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
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#18
2:43AM
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/10 01:18:12 (permalink)
Bought an iLok gen3 dongle about a month ago. Moved my licenses from the computer over to the dongle. No issues.  I have about a handful of iLok licenses for Soundtoys, Eventide, and Softube.
 
I wish I could toss the Waves licenses over to it, but at least Waves lets you use a spare USB thumb drive.
 
Several years ago, I got burned hard AF after my HDD crashed one evening, and I was forced to reinstall Windows.  At the time, I had my license for Waldorf Largo on the PC (no dongle). $125 down the toilet!  Waldorf was at least sympathetic and allowed me to purchase a new license at a 90% discount rate.  Since then, I have Largo on an eLicenser dongle.  Between the iLok, USB (Waves), and eLicenser, I feel secure.
 
Windows 10 sucks so freakin' bad, and PC's in nature always need a re-installation of Windows at some point or another, that having guarded licenses worth $$$ (with no true "cloud backup" available) on an external device is the preferred solution for me.
#19
azslow3
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/10 09:47:20 (permalink)
2:43AM
I wish I could toss the Waves licenses over to it, but at least Waves lets you use a spare USB thumb drive.

With Waves you are covered: https://www.waves.com/support/reactivate-recover-licenses
So, if your ($1-2) USB stick is broken, you can recover IN ONE CLICK! Without post, without fees.
 

Several years ago, I got burned hard AF after my HDD crashed one evening, and I was forced to reinstall Windows.  At the time, I had my license for Waldorf Largo on the PC (no dongle). $125 down the toilet!  Waldorf was at least sympathetic and allowed me to purchase a new license at a 90% discount rate.  Since then, I have Largo on an eLicenser dongle.  Between the iLok, USB (Waves), and eLicenser, I feel secure.

When one of your clients call you next day and ask for the project name you have made for him (yes, just several characters! That is what the license key is), ask him to pay 10% of the whole work. I am sure he will like to pay you just 10% for this one word, since you could ask the whole price again
 

Windows 10 sucks so freakin' bad, and PC's in nature always need a re-installation of Windows at some point or another, that having guarded licenses worth $$$ (with no true "cloud backup" available) on an external device is the preferred solution for me.

Windows 10 has nothing to do with that. You also need to re-install OS X and Linux periodically. Most of the time the process is "automatic update", but sometimes not. BTW I have installed Windows 8 several years ago and since then I have just updated (Windows 10 1809 now). You can clone Windows to another drive without problem, except for iLok (and other such technologies).
 
Open the Waves link in one tab and this one: https://ilok.com/#!zdt-details in another. Then compare.
1) buy the second spare iLok dongle. When the first one is broken/stolen/etc. and you do not have spare, you will be unable to use products till RMA is complete and that can take 2 weeks...
2) replace both dongles once per 2 years (they have limited warrantee)
3) pay $30 per year for that "coverage". Or you can pay $100 just once when the problem happened. They are so friendly to give you options...
 
What is described in both links is EFFECTIVELY THE SAME for the company. In one case you just click once. In another you buy dongles, pay fees, wait weeks.... Do you still want Waves on your iLok?
 

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc.
www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
#20
gswitz
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Re: iLok... or "how I was lo(c)k(ed)" 2019/01/10 12:28:05 (permalink)
azslow3
bdickens
iLok only provides the method for managing software licenses. They do not issue them. It is up to the individual software developers to determine when, if and how many authorizations to give you.

They provide the management for issued licenses. You point could be an argument... in case iLok by technology can not do something. But there is a prove they technically can, they do if you pay them.
 
bdickens
So don't get mad at the vendors, get mad at the pirates.

Vendors can be mad from pirates, that is a valid point. But do I as a customer suffer from pirates? No.
Vendors shift the consequences of piracy to me with the logic:
"we have problems with pirates, well... let our customers suffer from piracy instead of us".
I first pay for the protection system and then suffer from it. I do not need it and that is vendor's choice, not my.
And so the vendor is responsible for my problems, not the weather/cat/child which can destroy a dongle, not a broken component in my computer which can be replaced under warrantee and for sure not some abstract "pirates".
 
I can speak for myself only. Have I bought any program because it was copy protected and had no crack? No!
I have bought the first license for Sonar because it had NO online nor dongle protection at that time. That was
deal breaking argument for me.
 


We are so lucky to have you in our group! Thanks for all you do!

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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