input echo feature and interface loopback (SEMI SOLVED!!)

It used to be in older version I believe, if you wanted to hear a soft synth as you played it in real time, you needed the "input echo" button engaged (and minimize your latency settings).  I guess that got changed with simple instrument tracks??   I say because I can play one and it doesn't matter anymore.   It appears you can also play the FX in the bin with it engaged or not...which seemed new to me (coming from 7PE)
 
So...reading and reading...still trying to get me head around that feature.
 
ALSO... trying to use the loopback function in my audio interface, so I can record screen captures AND hear the FX in Sonar at the same time.  However, engaging the input echo AND my loopback of course causes a nasty loop for feedback.   Not sure how I can record with the loopback feature on the interface AND have the input echo engaged at the same time, so I can hear the FX in real time...and RECORD to my screen capture program...
 
and quite honestly, I'm not totally understanding why the loopback feature just by itself doesn't start runaway feedback.
 
So I guess two topics.... understand the loopback feature better and how to use it WITH the input echo engaged. 

You probably can get it to work ... but it'd hurt my brain to try and work it out ;).
 
In the meantime, if so inclined, take a look at VoiceMeeter (Donationware). It's a Virtual Mixer/Loopback solution with ASIO/low latency output integration. Working great for me ... and I'm not sure I've tapped it's potential ...especially when combined with other available virtual cables.
 
Note: Still be careful with input echo. Feedback is possible but controllable. Rule of thumb - keep input echo OFF.
 
BTW: For video capture I use MS Expression Screen Capture which works nicely too (HD, free).

Here's a specific of what I'm trying to do.  I have been using Bandicam for screen capture to do videos I am posting on Youtube.  I've had no troubles using items already recorded in the computer...audio tracks, showing ProChannel modules, etc.  That's been working great.
 
Now I wanted to plug a live instrument into Sonar, via the UR44, and then monitor the processing that Sonar does (which requires the input echo turned on), and capture it in Bandicam.  Everything I've been capturing else wise, the audio has been just fine.  

IOW, I can't find a way that I can demonstrate using a live guitar, the plugins inside Sonar.  If the guitar is already recorded, no problem, because I don't need the input echo on.  But when playing live AND making a video at the same time, is where I get into trouble.  I've mucked with settings, etc...but like Jim says.... I'm just incorporating the definition of a feedback loop.

I'm sure there's a way.. just need to figure it out.

I understand ... and good on you for wanting to get your hardware to do it (which it may be able to do) but ...
 
I had the same dilemma when I wanted to video live Vocoder ... so I hunted for a solution ...
 
I have no affiliation so this I won't mention it in this thread again but VoiceMeeter is the nuts.
(I found another one in my travels that'll do it too - WDM ASIO Link Driver (US$14.95))
But VoiceMeeter does the trick for me.
 
I just had a quick hack ...
Firstly I videoed voice and guitar through my mixer/audio interface ... all outside of Sonar  (with low latency Kernal Stream USB drivers of my audio interface).
I then opened Sonar, put a prerecorded loop of a Rapture Theremin on in the background.
Opened a Z3TA+2 Arp - played live
(Sonar outputs using ASIO)
... switching to guitar ... and doing some yeah yeahs on the mic, all at the same time
 
And videoed the lot .... audio captured great. Alas it's not a keeper ;). 
 

mixmkr
  I've other computers available as well, if that's needed somehow.

You could route the total processed signal to the other computer... and monitor/record the end result from it.
Essentially, it would be the same as a dedicated hardware based recorder.

the VoiceMeeter....seems initially like a solution.  Will dig deeper.  Thx again ALL.
 

Jim Roseberry
 
Couldn't you "fly" the audio (captured from the second computer) back into the video capture in Post (using Vegas or similar)?

Let me think about this, as it actually is the computer with the video capture, who's audio I want as well.  I could split my signal, and not have the first computer be on "input echo"...but I would have to make identical changes at the same time to both computers, if I adjust settings...which I would hope to be able to do a lot.  If I had a control surface that made changes to both at the same, identical time, I suppose that would sync things up.
I'm going to search some videos on Youtube and see if I can find one that does it...and go from there.  The ones where I see people playing, they AREN'T showing their computer, unless it is in PLAYBACK mode.  They are showing hardware pieces or just themselves...NOT the computer screen.

I tried the VoiceMeeter....and admittedly I wasn't 100% comfortable with the program...but the "virtual mixer" deleted all my Steinberg UR44 from being available.  Infact in Sonar preferences, they didn't show up.  I could route my Steinberg into one of the VoiceMeeter channels and the VoiceMeeter out to the Steinberg again...but having gain staging issues and still some feedback loop, but not nearly as bad.  I'll have to experiment more with that.  My problem is it would NOT let me select a hardware input into Sonar, while using VoiceMeeter. 
 
There's a decent chance on operator error, but we'll get there!!

ShellstaX and Jim...
I believe I found a solution.  I KNEW Sonar could do it... and also with the setup I got from Jim.
 
GOAL: Screen capture video AND capture audio that Sonar is processing in real time (input echo on)
 
Here's what I did. 
1. Plug into Channel 1 (analog input) on my UR44 with an analog source.
2. Come directly into Sonar's channel ONE WITH the input echo ON with the input coming from Channel 1 on the UR44.
3. IN SONAR, set the OUTPUT of Channel 1 to another mix OTHER than what the master buss goes to, (on my UR44, mix #2)
4. Hardwire the [analog] outputs of MIX 2 (on the UR44) and plug them into the UR44 Channel 3 & 4 (analog inputs)
5. Come back into SONAR channel TWO with the input from the UR44 analog 3&4 and RECORD THAT TRACK.
 
LEAVE THE LOOPBACK ON THE UR44 OFF  (that was causing feedback with the input echo also engaged)
 
6. Start the screen capture program and ALSO start recording in Sonar.
 
When finished recording...I have a DRY track recorded into my Screen Capture video and a WET (FX) track now recorded on track 2 in Sonar.
 
In my video editing program (Sony Vegas), I bring in a audio mix of SONAR's track two.
I also now bring in the screen capture video (that has the 'dry' track.  AFTER lining up the two audio tracks in Vegas, MUTE the video track's [dry] audio.
 
(BTW) I also don't monitor channel one in my UR44 software mixer.  I want to hear ONLY the Sonar processed audio, so I monitor inputs 3 & 4 only when recording.
 
lather, rinse, repeat...  THAT did the trick...  ON how to record (and screen capture) a track with the input echo ON and record the audio in real time.  That way I can fiddle away with the FX bin, etc... and just have Sonar recording in the background ...to later be sync'd to the screen capture video. 

Glad you found a solution!