instrument placement(panning)

Author
chuckebaby
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13146
  • Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
  • Status: offline
2011/01/24 09:07:59 (permalink)

instrument placement(panning)

im looking for some feedback on instrument placement..im recording all my tracks on a tascam 2488 neo.i then import wave files to sonar x1with all 24 tracks..i have my drum kit as follows...2tracks kick drum..2 tracks snare..2 tracks hi hats..2 tracks cybals..then instruments..2 bass..three rythm guitars..2 lead..voacals are..4 lead..4 back up..im wondering what would be the best panning arrangment for these instruments.i use a system now of panning my double tracks..im just curious as to how you do it?
thanks for the feedback
using sonar x1
on windows 7
post edited by chuckebaby - 2011/01/24 11:54:29
#1

11 Replies Related Threads

    dlogan
    Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2544
    • Joined: 2006/02/17 09:34:16
    • Location: Kansas City, Missouri
    • Status: offline
    Re:instrument placement(panning) 2011/01/24 10:09:46 (permalink)
    Kick, snare, bass and lead vocals should be pretty close (if not dead on) center. No specific rules for the rest - whatever works best for the track!

    What is your system you referenced for panning your double tracks?

    If your two bass tracks are one DI and one mic'd amp, having them slightly panned apart (very slightly) can help add some depth. However, with all of the double-tracked parts you have I don't know you will really need the bass to sound that big. It already sounds like quite a juggling act to get those parts all placed together.
    #2
    batsbrew
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10037
    • Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
    • Location: SL,UT
    • Status: offline
    Re:instrument placement(panning) 2011/01/24 10:23:33 (permalink)
    consider this:

    thewombforums.com/showthread.php?t=10454 
    post edited by batsbrew - 2011/01/24 10:25:50

    Bats Brew music Streaming
    Bats Brew albums:
    "Trouble"
    "Stay"
    "The Time is Magic"
    --
    Sonar 6 PE>Bandlab Cakewalk>Studio One 3.5>RME BFP>i7-7700 3.6GHz>MSI B250M>G.Skill Ripjaws 4 series 16GB>Samsung 960 EVO m.2ssd>W 10 Pro
     
    #3
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    Re:instrument placement(panning) 2011/01/24 10:30:29 (permalink)

    That article originated from here:

    http://www.moultonlabs.co..._the_phantom_image/P0/

    I like Mr Moulton... he's one of those golden eared guys that stresses that you can not trust your ears.

    That is, in my opinion, the voice of experience.

    Great link and very worthwhile reading.


    best regards,
    mike



    #4
    tarsier
    Max Output Level: -45 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3029
    • Joined: 2003/11/07 11:51:35
    • Location: 6 feet under
    • Status: offline
    Re:instrument placement(panning) 2011/01/24 10:36:20 (permalink)
    consider this: thewombforums.com/showthread.php?t=10454

    I read the first post of that massive thread, and he is correct--there are only 3 positions with a pan pot. But only for the case of a pan pot that uses level changes only--which is pretty much every pan pot (including DAW pan sliders) in existence.

    What he leaves out (or not, I didn't read the whole thread) is that if you really want to change where a sound is coming from you also have to adjust the delay. The Channel Tools plugin will do this. Delay the left a bit (1-3 ms, to taste, or even more) and the image will shift to the right. And vice versa. A combination of delay and level changes on background items can really widen the soundstage.
    #5
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    Re:instrument placement(panning) 2011/01/24 10:40:55 (permalink)
    If you read the actual article by David Moulton that was copy pasted into the first post at the womb link you will see that the Haas effect is spoken of on page 3.

    I wish Cakewalk had read that article when they designed Channel Tools.

    best regards,
    mike


    #6
    bitflipper
    01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
    • Total Posts : 26036
    • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
    • Location: Everett, WA USA
    • Status: offline
    Re:instrument placement(panning) 2011/01/24 11:40:45 (permalink)
    A big +1 for Dave Moulton's articles, which have been the catalyst for many an epiphany for me.

    After reading the one about the perception of the phantom center, I started being more bold in my panning. Strict LRC doesn't do it for me, especially when I'm listening on headphones, but I've been pretty much sticking to 5 pan positions for the last couple years and it's helped a great deal to bring out clarity in dense mixes.

    While you're there on his site, be sure to check out the articles on level and spectral management.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #7
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    Re:instrument placement(panning) 2011/01/24 11:52:30 (permalink)
    Listening on head phones used to be considered an eccentric activity. I'm sure you are fully aware of binaural tracking and mixing sensibilities.

    If you ever catch me mixing for headphones... come shoot me and let me out of my misery.

    I prefer mono more and more these days.

    It's either good music... or it's not. Who's to say? I don't know really... but I know that I no longer expect stereo (or binaural) to make it any better.

    :-)




    #8
    bitflipper
    01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
    • Total Posts : 26036
    • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
    • Location: Everett, WA USA
    • Status: offline
    Re:instrument placement(panning) 2011/01/24 17:25:38 (permalink)
    Once upon a time headphones were a luxury for wealthy college students. I couldn't afford them when I was in college and listened to music over the same amp and speaker that I used on stage. In mono. Three 15" speakers, no horn or tweeters. Hey, I didn't know any better. It was loud, and thus satisfied my primary requirement.

    Today, most of my pleasure listening happens via headphones. The best music sounds great on them, and my own mixes have to ultimately pass the headphone test before I'll pronounce them "done". Conventional speakers are still the final judge, but it has to sound good on both speakers and headphones.

    BTW, I have a hot tip for headphone fans, a new product I auditioned last week at NAMM: the Sony MDR-7520. These are far and away the most detailed cans I have ever heard. I want a pair. Badly. But at $550 they'll have to wait awhile.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #9
    batsbrew
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10037
    • Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
    • Location: SL,UT
    • Status: offline
    Re:instrument placement(panning) 2011/01/24 18:30:40 (permalink)
    you would laugh at my panning automation!

    heheh


    it's like a rollercoaster at times, no ****.

    but

    for the most part, for several years now, i've settled on what boils down to mostly L_R_C panning.


    but i have active panning going on quite a bit....
    on dense mixes, i switch sides, do cross panning, pull in and back out to suit a specific section, i've even cross panned in mid word.......


    but never panning for the sake of panning....

    it's to find where in the sonic landscape, i can get things to stand out.

    or

    blend in.

    also, use choice selections of reverb and delays with predelay, to approx. that haas effect.



    Bats Brew music Streaming
    Bats Brew albums:
    "Trouble"
    "Stay"
    "The Time is Magic"
    --
    Sonar 6 PE>Bandlab Cakewalk>Studio One 3.5>RME BFP>i7-7700 3.6GHz>MSI B250M>G.Skill Ripjaws 4 series 16GB>Samsung 960 EVO m.2ssd>W 10 Pro
     
    #10
    chuckebaby
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 13146
    • Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
    • Status: offline
    Re:instrument placement(panning) 2011/01/24 23:21:24 (permalink)
    guys,thank you very much for the replys..and that article was great..i even started reading about db's on that site too..but you all bring up very interesting points..some of which i do already so it leads me to believe im on the right path..mike talking about mono..good point..bitter with the headphone test..a must for me also..and bats gave me some ideas on automation..slightly panning my bass..im on it..and to use effects as an ear graber..well im just starting to get good at that..its an art in itself..keepem coming.please.your knoledge is wisdom well taken.i have never been part of any music forum so this is like a whole new world for me..getting ideas from people that have been doing this for years and spread out all over the world..thank you for letting me part of this family..i know that sounds wicked corney..but its true..whats even more cornier is i just said wicked which is a boston thing
    #11
    Johannes H
    Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 333
    • Joined: 2009/03/11 17:25:51
    • Location: Norway
    • Status: offline
    Re:instrument placement(panning) 2011/01/25 10:25:40 (permalink)
    An interesting thread and an interesting article.

    I wouldn`t pan acoustic instruments hard L or R, to me that feels a bit unatural (maybe it`s just me), but for electric and electronic instruments I can see this could be worth trying. 

    In the end what matters is to make a mix you are happy with (and others as well). 

    Best, JH


                   
    #12
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1