intermittent and unwanted distortion - any ideas?

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Thomas Campitelli
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2005/05/29 21:39:12 (permalink)

intermittent and unwanted distortion - any ideas?

Howdy Folks,

Happy Memorial Day. I have a question that I submitted to M-Audio's tech support. However, I fear that I will not resolve it through them. I figured I would ask some of you folks if you have heard something like this before. First, my system specs:

Sonar 1.3.1
Intel P4 2.8 GHz
1 GB PC 2700 RAM
Intel D865 PERL Motherboard
Windows XP Pro SP2 with all updates
M-Audio Delta 66 with version .5051 drivers

Below is an adaptation of the email I sent to M-Audio:

I am having a problem with intermittent distortion while recording unrelated to line levels. I am wondering if this is a hardware problem with my trusty Delta 66, Sonar, or some other reason. This issue has been occurring for many months. I recently reinstalled my system in the hopes of remedying this problem and right now all I have running on my computer are Windows XP, FXpansion DR-008, Sonar 1.3.1, and a text editor. I also visited musicxp.net and implemented all of their suggested tweaks. I have the .5051 version of th Delta drivers at present, but I have noticed this problem with all of the available versions on M-Audio website. You can hear what I am talking about by downloading and listening to the MP3 (138 KB) linked below.

http://www.crysknifeband.com/maudio/distorted_audio.mp3

I cannot reproduce this problem reliably and I receive no warning that it is happening until after I finish recording. It is not limited to a single project, nor input on the Delta. The intermittent nature of the problem makes me suspect hardware. However, whether it is the Delta or something else, I do not yet know. Most of the time things work nicely, but I would like to eliminate this issue if I could. I have had many spoiled takes as a result. Any help would be appreciated.

Thomas Campitelli
http://www.crysknifeband.com
#1

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    EgM
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    RE: intermittent and unwanted distortion - any ideas? 2005/05/29 21:45:11 (permalink)
    Hi Thomas,

    Have you tried reprofiling the card? Options/Audio. Sounds like bad buffering on the audio. Also since you didn't give us much info on your Sonar configuration, are you using WDM or ASIO modes? WDM should work ok with any delta card, I'd set the buffers (in the delta panel) to at least 256 if you want to be sure your machine can handle it. Remember to reprofile the card everytime you change the buffers in the panel.

    I'm pretty sure this won't help your case, but it's worth a try :)

    Eric E. Hache
    http://www.gamemusic.ca
    #2
    losguy
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    RE: intermittent and unwanted distortion - any ideas? 2005/05/29 22:53:06 (permalink)
    Thomas, your clip does sound like some sort of data formatting problem. That's a little weird if it's intermittent as you say it is. I had a problem with the "Stream > 16 bits" setting being changed automatically to a bad setting when I Profiled the audio card, which would cause distortion to come up "apparently" at random times. So this problem comes and goes on different individual channels without changing anything?

    Also, while you're at it, tell about your Wordclock sync source and Master/Slave routing, if any. And do you have Options > Audio > Advanced tab > Synchronization set to Trigger & Freewheel?

    Psalm 30:12
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    #3
    Thomas Campitelli
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    RE: intermittent and unwanted distortion - any ideas? 2005/05/30 00:05:09 (permalink)
    Howdy EgM,

    Many thanks for your response.

    ORIGINAL: EgM
    Have you tried reprofiling the card? Options/Audio. Sounds like bad buffering on the audio.


    I have not reprofiled the card. However, since this is essentially a brand-spanking new installation, it was just profiled. The buffering is something I had not yet considered, however.


    Also since you didn't give us much info on your Sonar configuration, are you using WDM or ASIO modes? WDM should work ok with any delta card, I'd set the buffers (in the delta panel) to at least 256 if you want to be sure your machine can handle it. Remember to reprofile the card everytime you change the buffers in the panel.


    Sorry about that. At present, I am using the WDM mode. Since my version of Sonar is a bit old, I do not believe that ASIO is available. My DMA buffer size is current at 512 samples. My latency in Sonar is set to 11 ms, however I've noticed this problem when my latencies were much higher (90 ms). My I/O buffer size in Sonar is 64 KB.

    Howdy, Losguy. I appreciate your response. As I've mentioned before, your reclaiming SATA for Audio thread is excellent.

    So this problem comes and goes on different individual channels without changing anything?


    Yeah, for the most part. I cannot reporduce it. However, sometimes when the distortion starts, I have to restart Sonar and/or reboot before it goes away. It happens on various sound sources, on different channels. It's very tricky that way.

    I had a problem with the "Stream > 16 bits" setting being changed automatically to a bad setting


    Currently, my card is set to 32-bit PCM, left justified. That is a default from the profiling.

    Also, while you're at it, tell about your Wordclock sync source and Master/Slave routing, if any.


    My Master Clock on my M-Audio panel shows "Internal Xtal." To my knowledge, I am not doing any Master/Slave routing.

    And do you have Options > Audio > Advanced tab > Synchronization set to Trigger & Freewheel?


    At present it is set to Full Chase Lock. I will set it to Trigger & Flywheel. I'm not even really sure what a word clock is. I will do some Googling to find out.

    A few more details that may or may not be of interest:

    I have 3 hard drives in my machine.

    HD 1: Seagate 80 GB SATA (C: Drive, normal everday Windows XP Install)
    HD 2: Seagate 120 GB SATA (D: Drive, Digital Audio Workstation Install)
    HD 3: Western Digital 120 GB IDE (E: Drive, Audio disk)

    Thanks again for your help and ideas.


    Thomas Campitelli
    http://www.crysknifeband.com
    #4
    NYSR
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    RE: intermittent and unwanted distortion - any ideas? 2005/05/31 22:03:52 (permalink)
    I have found it necessarry to go back to the .27 drivers for my delta as I was having the same problem. Changing drivers solved the problem/



    Cakewalk customer since Apprentice version 1, PreSonus 16.4.2 ai, 3.5 gHz i7

    #5
    Thomas Campitelli
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    RE: intermittent and unwanted distortion - any ideas? 2005/06/03 09:25:53 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: NYSR

    I have found it necessarry to go back to the .27 drivers for my delta as I was having the same problem. Changing drivers solved the problem/


    I may also give this a try. I changed my Synchronization to Trigger & Flywheel. This seems to have helped. Thus far, I've recorded a few dozen takes without any issues. However, this problem is intermittent so I am unwilling to declare victory yet. If this does not cure it, I may go back to the older drivers. Thanks for the hint, NYSR.

    Thomas Campitelli
    http://www.crysknifeband.com
    #6
    NYSR
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    RE: intermittent and unwanted distortion - any ideas? 2005/06/03 15:59:58 (permalink)
    Trigger and flywheel is a setting that works best when you have unstable audio and therefore resort to short audio durations in the midst of a MIDI setting.

    Today's computers should have no problem syncing exactly at the sample level.

    The flywheel solution will show its ugly head at some point in time.



    Cakewalk customer since Apprentice version 1, PreSonus 16.4.2 ai, 3.5 gHz i7

    #7
    Elson
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    RE: intermittent and unwanted distortion - any ideas? 2005/06/03 18:00:04 (permalink)
    You sure your drive isn't fragmented?

    Elson R. Trinidad (El SONAR Trinidad) :) | Los Angeles, CA, USA
    http://www.elsongs.com | http://www.e-trinity.org
    #8
    Thomas Campitelli
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    RE: intermittent and unwanted distortion - any ideas? 2005/06/04 19:32:58 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: NYSR

    Trigger and flywheel is a setting that works best when you have unstable audio and therefore resort to short audio durations in the midst of a MIDI setting.

    Today's computers should have no problem syncing exactly at the sample level.

    The flywheel solution will show its ugly head at some point in time.

    Hmmm...that is troubling. Since I am still using an old version of Sonar, perhaps I will be able to rectify the whole mess by upgrading. However, I find that a new piece of software rarely fixes anything.
    You sure your drive isn't fragmented?

    I believe I defragmented it quite recently. However, I would think that a fragmented drive would be more likely to cause a pop or a click instead of massive prolonged ugliness. I will give defragmentation a go, too. It certainly will not hurt.

    Thomas Campitelli
    http://www.crysknifeband.com
    #9
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