psychwardmedia
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is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
what i'm doing is trying to loop a clip of ocean waves for a film - the problem is that it keeps trying to sync to tempo i think. Obviously tempo is rather unimportant with that. It sounds like an overly stretched piece of audio, as if i've stretched the sound too far, so I'm trying to figure how to turn that part of sonar off in this partiuclar track, or even all of sonar, for this project.
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samhayman
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 05:31:30
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For looping clips, you have an option which says something like "Clip follows project tempo" or something similar (sorry I don't have Sonar open in front of me).
You need to uncheck that and it should play 'as is'.
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SToons
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 06:04:26
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psychwardmedia
what i'm doing is trying to loop a clip of ocean waves for a film - the problem is that it keeps trying to sync to tempo i think. Obviously tempo is rather unimportant with that. It sounds like an overly stretched piece of audio, as if i've stretched the sound too far, so I'm trying to figure how to turn that part of sonar off in this partiuclar track, or even all of sonar, for this project.
Instead of trying to use Groove Clip Looping (right-click the clip and disable it which should cause it to return to it's original length), select and then Copy the audio. In your Snap settings enable Landmark and Audio Events. Place the cursor at the end of the audio clip, it should now snap right to it. Go to Process>Paste. In the dialog you'll see an option for "Repetitions" so you can have it repeat numerous times. No matter how many repetitions it will not increase the file size and you can always delete unneccessary copies later. Alternately, throw it in any VST that supports samples. Set the sample to loop and then use a MIDI note to trigger it. The MIDI note should last as long as you want the sound to loop. The added benefit to this approach is you can trigger the sample at different pitches, overlap notes, or easily modulate them. This means, for example, wind/ocean sounds can easily be set to slightly raise and lowering pitch and or volume, get louder, softer, more intense...whatever you like. A very simple way to do this would be using the included DropZone softsynth. This also allows the use of Filters and LFO's to subtly (or dramatically) affect the sound in a natural way.
post edited by SToons - 2012/08/24 06:24:11
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Freex
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 07:43:36
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you could also try stretching some of the clips and shrinking some to remove the rhythmic effect that will inevitably occur when you do this type of thing. Also try to over lap some of your clips and fade them in and out to mix things up a little, Try inserting EQ on some of the clips, and adjust the amount of high or low, with a wide Q, this will also reduce the repeativeness.
post edited by Freex - 2012/08/24 10:57:09
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bvideo
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 08:54:31
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Or you can still use the clip as a groove clip, but turn off "Follow Project Pitch" and "Enable Stretching" in the Loop Construction View so the original sound is not modified.
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daveny5
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 09:52:29
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Don't make it a Groove Clip and just copy and paste it with as many repetitions as you need.
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 10:29:32
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I use Control L ( groove clip ) then I right click and bounce to clips , then I arrange using those bounced clips..
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chuckebaby
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 11:41:44
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Open the inspector and un-tick "groove clip looping"
but i dont think thats your problem,it sounds like you have time stretched enabled on the clip.
untick that in the inspector as well.
once you untick time stretch,set up a 10 second loop,groove clip it and stretch it,it wont do what its doing now.
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SToons
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 15:09:07
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bvideo
Or you can still use the clip as a groove clip, but turn off "Follow Project Pitch" and "Enable Stretching" in the Loop Construction View so the original sound is not modified.
With Groove Looping activated "Enable Stretching" is not available as an option (greyed out) and "Follow Project Pitch" has no effect on the length of the clip. When you say the original file remains unmodified, have you actually tested and confirmed this before advising? It doesn't work for me.
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psychwardmedia
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 15:33:20
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thank you so much everyone, the overwhelming response has been very useful. I loved the idea of sampling and using pitch to subtly change the sound, but I don't get to play with my toys so much on this one, the director/producer is very decided on how he wants it to sound. I think I learned something from just about every post too. Thanks people.
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psychwardmedia
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 15:55:44
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so I've tried all these things and still getting a strange sound. When i turn off groove clip looping it goes away. Thoughts?
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SToons
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 16:02:59
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psychwardmedia
so I've tried all these things and still getting a strange sound. When i turn off groove clip looping it goes away. Thoughts?
Read post #3 again. First, turn off Groove Clip Looping... I do not believe you can easily accomplish what you want with Groove Looping. Cheers.
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psychwardmedia
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 16:06:00
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kk. hopefully this will be fixed in x2.
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SToons
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 16:13:55
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psychwardmedia
kk. hopefully this will be fixed in x2.
Well, it's not really "broken" per se, I think Cakewalk has tried to dumby-proof the Groove Looping so it always fits an exact measure/measures (although MIDI clips work differently). I for one would welcome the option to loop without the current limitations. Unless I'm missing something... (quite possible!)
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js516
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 16:29:16
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I would not use any form of looping for ocean waves. Your best bet is the cut and paste technique. However, instead of butting one clip up against the other, have the clips overlap randomly and apply a cross fade. This would make it a bit more natural.
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chuckebaby
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 16:42:42
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stoons has got some good points here though there are some shortcuts to make it a little quicker.
like just hold down control and click on the clip and drag it to the end of your original one,this is a quick way to copy/paste
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psychwardmedia
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 16:54:14
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well this is just for B roll, but i'll keep the cut and paste in mind for the main film, though I have well over 30 minutes of ocean, there are just bits i need to cut out. I was going to send two versions, one looped and possibly with an eq with automation or something and another the other the one which is not looped, just edited to remove unwanted background noise. Since I'm stuck using the cut and paste method anyways I am thinking I'll use the easy cut and paste for the b roll and the non looped method for the film. Thanks peeps!
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psychwardmedia
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 16:59:25
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some times I think that when companies "dummy proof" their stuff they really inhibit themselves. I could see dummy proofing one of the more consumer oriented or "light" versions of sonar but I'm pretty sure that if people are willing to drop the kind of cash that it costs for the Producer or Producer expanded versions of their software that they are interested in more advanced options, instead of the rather crippled functionality that comes from "dummy proofing" software. Just my humble take on things. I've always been the one to want to learn everything anyway - hell I knew how to do the copy and paste thing, I just wanted to see if I could learn a better way to get around my current situation. I'm the perpetual student. Anyhow, thanks stoons. SToons
psychwardmedia
kk. hopefully this will be fixed in x2.
Well, it's not really "broken" per se, I think Cakewalk has tried to dumby-proof the Groove Looping so it always fits an exact measure/measures (although MIDI clips work differently). I for one would welcome the option to loop without the current limitations. Unless I'm missing something... (quite possible!)
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SToons
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 17:12:22
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chuckebaby
stoons has got some good points here though there are some shortcuts to make it a little quicker.
like just hold down control and click on the clip and drag it to the end of your original one,this is a quick way to copy/paste
I don't think drag-copying 30 copies of a clip is quicker than choosing paste and adding Repetitions. Also keep in mind if a clip is not exactly a measure/measures in length then it gets trickier to "snap" the clips together, something that my suggested approach deals with. Just a thought.
post edited by SToons - 2012/08/24 17:18:58
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SToons
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 17:13:27
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psychwardmedia
some times I think that when companies "dummy proof" their stuff they really inhibit themselves. I could see dummy proofing one of the more consumer oriented or "light" versions of sonar but I'm pretty sure that if people are willing to drop the kind of cash that it costs for the Producer or Producer expanded versions of their software that they are interested in more advanced options, instead of the rather crippled functionality that comes from "dummy proofing" software. Just my humble take on things.
I agree.
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bvideo
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/24 23:40:14
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SToons
bvideo
Or you can still use the clip as a groove clip, but turn off "Follow Project Pitch" and "Enable Stretching" in the Loop Construction View so the original sound is not modified.
With Groove Looping activated "Enable Stretching" is not available as an option (greyed out) and "Follow Project Pitch" has no effect on the length of the clip. When you say the original file remains unmodified, have you actually tested and confirmed this before advising? It doesn't work for me.
Sorry to say, no. I referred to the manual, which as it turns out doesn't quite resemble the program (X1D exp) with regard to the loop construction view. Unlike a different program I was thinking of, enabling looping and enabling stretching are mutually exclusive in Sonar. So no, there doesn't seem to be a convenient way to replicate clips by dragging the ends except with loop resampling, which virtually always does time modification.
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psychwardmedia
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/26 00:54:36
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well it seems i will just be stuck using some more creative workarounds or other programs until cake decides to address this.
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chuckebaby
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/28 17:17:13
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SToons
I don't think drag-copying 30 copies of a clip is quicker than choosing paste and adding Repetitions. Also keep in mind if a clip is not exactly a measure/measures in length then it gets trickier to "snap" the clips together, something that my suggested approach deals with. Just a thought.
you copy paste or hold control to drag ? same thing. after copying several clips,lasso and bounce to clips and then copy a large segment. see your saying copy paste/move your cursor,copy/paste..move your cursor,copy/paste. what am i missing that holding down control isnt faster,you save the right click move and the extra paste move.
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SToons
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Re:is it possible to loop clips without using "groove clip looping"?
2012/08/28 18:50:56
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chuckebaby
SToons
I don't think drag-copying 30 copies of a clip is quicker than choosing paste and adding Repetitions. Also keep in mind if a clip is not exactly a measure/measures in length then it gets trickier to "snap" the clips together, something that my suggested approach deals with. Just a thought.
you copy paste or hold control to drag ?
same thing.
after copying several clips,lasso and bounce to clips and then copy a large segment.
see your saying copy paste/move your cursor,copy/paste..move your cursor,copy/paste.
what am i missing that holding down control isnt faster,you save the right click move and the extra paste move.
Hey Charlie. No, what I'm saying is NOT copy, paste, copy, paste, move cursor etc.. Read post #3 again. Open the Paste dialog box and notice there is an option for "Repetitions". With one single paste operation you can paste as many copies as you want. One copy, one paste, finished.
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