losing tracks in mixdown -

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rir1
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2017/07/29 20:12:38 (permalink)

losing tracks in mixdown -

When I listen in sonar (x2) I hear the entire mix; when I mix down I'm losing several tracks - I've grouped several tracks into buses to make it easier; as I say everything sounds when I listen through sonar, but when I mix down to stereo, several channels are missing from the mix; I've never had a problem like this before; I'm going to shift to another computer to see if it's the computer but I don't think so it's quite reliable.  For the heck of it I did one try soloing the master track to see if it was a problem with the other buses, but same thing.  Anybody have any idea - as I say, mixdown is usually very dependable  Thanks for help.
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    rir1
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    Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/29 21:55:17 (permalink)
    so I posted this but not sure if in the right forum - I've got Sonar X2 and I've assigned individual tracks to buses (4); when i'm in Sonar everything comes through fine in the mix - when I mix down to stereo I've got like one bus coming through and not all the time and the others aren't there - I tried to bounce the mix to a track to see if I could do it that way - no - I changed computers and the problem is still there - I've never had a problem with mixdown before and don't see why these buses should sound in sonar just fine but then are not in the mix unless I'm not selecting something I should be - I've thought of an artificial fix, but I'm not happy that the mix is not reflecting what I've got in the file and can't understand why - even when I run a mix with the Master track soloed I still am not getting the tracks assigned to the buses - again they are fine in Sonar, just when I mix down - can't figure it out and would appreciate some insight.  Thanks.
    #2
    scook
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/29 22:02:25 (permalink)
    The other post was in the same area a few threads lower. I merged them for you.
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    space_cowboy
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/29 22:16:43 (permalink)
    if you are running several busses, click on the waveform preview button on the buss.  If something is missing on that buss, then there's your problem.  if it is on the preview, are you sure you are sending that buss to the master buss?  
     
    I usually configure 6-8 busses (keys, drums, guitars, vox, fx...) and a master buss that they are routed to.  If you were routed to the main output and not the master buss, you would hear the stuff when you played back but it would not be in the final mix.  

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    rir1
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/29 23:28:48 (permalink)
    Thanks, Cowboy, good info, I'll check it out and let you know - appreciated - 
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    rir1
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/30 03:22:03 (permalink)
    I patched them to a new bus (if you mean something else by master bus please let me know) - but same result - I honestly don't know why the buses wouldn't show up in the mix if they are patched to output to the master; but anyway I'm still not getting the buses in the mix; doesn't make sense to me unless I'm supposed to choose an option in mixdown that I'm not choosing - anyway any thoughts are welcome - thanks.
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    space_cowboy
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/30 04:14:24 (permalink)
    Lets try a hypothetical scenario
    You have 2 guitars
    A drum kit
    A Bass
    and a bagpipe
    tracks
     
    I usually create a buss called "Guitars" over on the almost far right.  I then route my guitar tracks to the guitar buss.  Ditto for drums to drum buss...
     
    I create another buss called Master buss  I route Guitar Buss to Master, Drums to Master...(this may seem unnecessary but if you want to glue the mix together using a buss compressor, then you need a comparable arrangement). 
     
    If your sound card has say 4 outputs and it is named Larry, then I would send the Master buss output to Larry 1-2.
     
    None of the instruments or the busses are sent to Larry 1-2 except Master Buss.   
     
    What you hear when you monitor Larry 1-2 should be the same as when you mix down.  
     
    Do you have a setup like that?  

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    space_cowboy
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/30 04:21:29 (permalink)
    This pic is from an old version of sonar, but it helps illustrate what I am saying.  Notice the vertical dividers?
    the things called Arp 1 and Arp 2... all the way to the first divider (from left to right) are tracks.  The next 3 are busses (main buss aux 1 aux 2) and after the next divider is the outputs from your sound card.  
     
    You want to create busses like in that middle section, then route that to the sound card output.  I like a master because I can mix the various stems more easily in groups.  
     
     


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    space_cowboy
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/30 04:25:18 (permalink)
    Here is a more recent one showing the same thing.  
     
    Left to right.  Tracks to busses to outputs.  They seem to have routed everything to the master (in the center section left) and that is routed to the sound card outputs.  
     

     

    Some people call me Maurice
     
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    space_cowboy
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/30 04:29:36 (permalink)
    When I listen in sonar (x2) I hear the entire mix; when I mix down I'm losing several tracks - I've grouped several tracks into buses to make it easier; as I say everything sounds when I listen through sonar, but when I mix down to stereo, several channels are missing from the mix
     
    where are the other channels going, if not to a buss? are the missing channels not routed to a buss?

    Some people call me Maurice
     
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    lfm
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/30 04:36:56 (permalink)
    Something about actually selecting all the tracks involved?
     
    One of the things that are particular about render in Sonar as I recall.
    You don't select track on track number(I think it is) - and it won't become part of render.
     
    So you listen to mix, all is fine, but render and forgot a track - that is lost.
    This all from memory.
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/30 06:50:36 (permalink)
    Yeah this is either a selection or a routing problem.
     
    Make sure that
     
    • ALL of your tracks output to a "sub-buss" (e.g. guitars, drums, keys, vocals)
    • ALL of your sub-busses are routed to the Master Buss (which YOU have to create)
    • Route the Master Buss to your Soundcard (far right in Cowboys pictures)
    • Before Exporting, either Select All (Ctrl + a) or Select None (Ctrl + Shift + a)
    If this doesn't work then let us know as something else is going on
     

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    interpolated
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/30 08:19:45 (permalink)
    I notice if you export individual busses but not the master bus. Then anything not assigned to a submix bus will not be audible.

    This is because of the way Sonar routes audio
    For example, if you are not outputting to the master bus but your soundcard output. It will be audible but not in the render path.

    A good way to manage this is colour code your busses. Then make your tracks follow the bus colour for what you assign them to. Once you get into the habit if indeed setup a template like this then the confusion will be reduced a lot and easier to understand.

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/30 08:47:48 (permalink)
    Good tip Aaron.
     
    Any track not routed to a bus will not be colour coded and obvious to spot

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    savoy
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/30 11:28:25 (permalink)
    what preset do you use on the export-audio? (i would select the "what your hear"preset..
     
     
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    rir1
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/31 03:45:52 (permalink)
    Thank you for the input, you guys are so knowledgeable!  I'm going to study your comments - but I think I'm onto something in that my patching was fx*ed up - I went into console view and I had my tracks muted because the buses were sounding anyway - so I unmuted them and made sure they were patched to the buses and - there they are - pretty stupid, huh - but it is confusing in Sonar in that the buses will sound in the sonar environment even if you have your original tracks muted - they sound in the buses - but when you mix down they're not there - it seems to me that what you hear in the sonar environment should be what you will hear in mix (and I tried the mix "what you hear" option, and that didn't do it - it seems to be the default anyway) - but I am grateful to you all for your insights it's a huge help in learning my way around here - if anyone is reading this far - does anyone have an opinion about whether they like to have their tracks in pre or post when they send them to a bus?  I'm trying both ways now - thanks again.
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    interpolated
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/31 07:33:02 (permalink)
    It just depends on whether I need a static amount of effect or one that changes after track automation. Pre being the option for a fixed sound.
     

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/31 07:49:52 (permalink)
    I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've used Pre.
     
    Use Post unless you have a good reason not to.

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    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/07/31 10:16:38 (permalink)
    On a hardware console, the "pre" (fader) setting is most often used to create a monitor mix. You don't want the send level (i.e. someone's monitor mix) to change just because YOU want to lower the fader/level of that track on the main outputs.

    This situation is pretty rare in a DAW so, as Bristol Jonesey pointed out, you end up almost never using "pre".
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    lfm
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    Re: Some buses in mix - others not - 2017/08/01 22:31:32 (permalink)
    rir1
    but it is confusing in Sonar in that the buses will sound in the sonar environment even if you have your original tracks muted - they sound in the buses - but when you mix down they're not there - it seems to me that what you hear in the sonar environment should be what you will hear in mix (and I tried the mix "what you hear" option, and that didn't do it - it seems to be the default anyway) - but I am grateful to you all for your insights it's a huge help in learning my way around here - if anyone is reading this far - does anyone have an opinion about whether they like to have their tracks in pre or post when they send them to a bus?  I'm trying both ways now - thanks again.




    There is a setting to alter pre send muting behavior.
    LinkPFsendmute=1 can be set in aud.ini so you never experience that again, using pre sends.
    You reach this from within Sonar environment, in some dialog.
     
    Coming from Sonar 4 I was used also to never get anything from muted tracks.
     
    Fade in an intro or fade out an outro can be cool using prefader sends to reverb.
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