Helpful Replylow standards in programming

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williamcopper
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2016/04/15 16:43:21 (permalink)

low standards in programming

(edited to eliminate unnecessary criticism while preserving the wish for improvement)
 
In order to put the output tracks of an inserted synth up near where the midi tracks are located, I put them into a folder; ready to take the folder and move all the tracks at once up where they should be.    Click close folder?   Presto, the screen pops up to the top, so I have to scroll all the way to the bottom again to grab the folder.   
 
Open a project folder in a directory with hundreds of entries?   Does sonar remember where the last entry was, the way Sound Forge does?  No, you have to scroll all the way down again every time.   
 
Essentially, I wish the sonar development team would take the time to polish all these little ways in which Sonar could be a stronger and more likeable program.    It's not just these two, it is everywhere and all the time. 
post edited by williamcopper - 2016/04/16 10:23:51
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williamcopper
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 16:58:16 (permalink)
O yeah, keeping this window open while trying to add synths and instruments.    "Insert Soft Synth" ... I uncheck "Enable Midi Output".     Over .. and over ... and over .. .and over   and over.     Starting new projects, I uncheck "reset controllers to zero"   Over ... and over .. and over ... and over.    
 
Opening multiple tracks in prv, I close controller channels in the abominable controller pain, Over and over .. and over .. and over.
 
Trying to work with Sonar and Vegas Pro at the same time: I answer a dialog about missing midi .. Over ... and over ... and over ... and over.     All these things cause grief.
post edited by williamcopper - 2016/04/16 10:24:19
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TPayton
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 17:12:35 (permalink)
I found this post to be lkejoodf;gj; snvtoonwwwoigeroigh [owieipokmv[s'eptohinvc;xsyhvmcx;aoaenf;sdjgpnv

Tom
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williamcopper
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 17:18:49 (permalink)
Invisible track names, PRV track view, windows font size set to 125%
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williamcopper
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 17:20:23 (permalink)
Multiplication of midi clips by single click note insertion
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robert_e_bone
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 17:20:28 (permalink)
Is the Reset Controllers To Zero parameter able to be set and saved into a Project Template that you could use when you start a new project?  That way, it would be set the way you wanted from the initiation of the project and not require having to go in and change it. I have done similar things (edited to add: with other parameters) many times for different flavors of project classifications that I use. :)
 
And for the Enable MIDI Output, a couple of other short posts on it:
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3276402
 
and
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3122034
 
Just a thought.
 
Bob Bone
 

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
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williamcopper
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 17:23:18 (permalink)
Sure, Robert, most of these things either have work-arounds or are minor enough to pass over.   But they are still evidence of standards that could be raised in the UI programming department.   Other programs, not necessarily music related, deal with the same issues and generally solve them.        The focus issue:   you have four window open, you see four focus indications, and only one of them is true.
post edited by williamcopper - 2016/04/16 10:24:54
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John T
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 17:29:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/04/16 10:24:35
Given that you've now proven to yourself on the internet that it's not just various individual things that need to be improved / updated / fixed, but actually that Sonar is fundamentally and across the board a shoddy piece of work, can I ask why you use it?

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John T
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 17:30:25 (permalink)
I mean, if you're right, even half right, the situation is hopeless, surely?
 

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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 18:48:13 (permalink)
williamcopper
Sure, Robert, most of these things either have work-arounds or are minor enough to pass over.   But they are still evidence of low standards in the UI programming department.   Other programs, not necessarily music related, deal with the same issues and generally solve them.        The focus issue:   you have four window open, you see four focus indications, and only one of them is true.


I'm not sure what you mean. Windows has some control over what windows have focus and the title bar is the tell tale. 
 
 

Best
John
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bitman
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 18:55:20 (permalink)
Maybe those of you that are passionate about these things can volunteer your coding services to help improve those things. I got an email today from the brass stating that the re-up for a new SPlat year is $119 now until April 22. This is why you might consider a volunteer offering.
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Anderton
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 19:45:39 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/04/16 10:31:12
williamcopper
In order to put the output tracks of an inserted synth up near where the midi tracks are located, I put them into a folder; ready to take the folder and move all the tracks at once up where they should be.    Click close folder?   Presto, the screen pops up to the top, so I have to scroll all the way to the bottom again to grab the folder.

 
When I close a folder, it stays wherever it was. Your description of what you are doing is sufficiently opaque I have no idea how to reproduce your issue, which means I can't tell you how to solve it. Meanwhile, the rest of your problems are generally attributable to a lack of knowledge.
 
 
Starting new projects, I uncheck "reset controllers to zero"   Over ... and over .. and over ... and over.    

 
First of all, there is no "reset controllers to zero" option. Assuming what you actually mean is "Zero Controllers When Play Stops," you say you're opening a New project. This calls up your Normal template, which must have "Zero Controllers When Play Stops" enabled. So disable it, then save the project you just opened as your Normal template. Now when you open a new project, "Zero Controllers When Play Stops" will be disabled. Simple.
 
[I just saw Robert gave the same solution. Frankly, I find it beyond illogical to consider a program that lets you define the characteristics when you open a project to be a "workaround." Initial preferences are chosen that, in the judgement of the programmers, will be of the greatest usefulness to the greatest number of people. If a particular preference isn't what you want, you can change it and most preference settings persist...assuming you know how to save a Template. To assume EVERYONE wants the same preference as you, and that therefore having to choose a different preference is a "workaround," is absurd.]
 
Open a project folder in a directory with hundreds of entries?   Does sonar remember where the last entry was, the way Sound Forge does?  No, you have to scroll all the way down again every time.

 
Yes, it does. Maybe you're not aware that like Sound Forge, SONAR maintains a recent list of files...
 

 
Or maybe you're not aware that the Start Screen maintains a list of files, as well as the ability to pin ones you want to keep to the top...
 

 
Or maybe you're not aware that Windows can sort files by a variety of criteria...
 

 
Or maybe you're so poor at file and folder organization you have to scroll through hundreds of projects to find the ones you want, which would be solved by organizing your work properly even if the above options didn't exist. It reminds of how you complain about losing "hours and hours of work" because for whatever reason, you fail to save a project periodically. 
 

Trying to work with Sonar and Vegas Pro at the same time: I answer a dialog about missing midi .. Over ... and over ... and over ... and over.     All these things are shoddy and careless programming.

 
Windows 7 does not have multi-client MIDI, which was introduced in Windows 10. Realistically, it's not Microsoft's fault you choose not to avail yourself of a solution. 
 
Opening multiple tracks in prv, I close controller channels in the abominable controller pain, Over and over .. and over .. and over.

 
I've already explained to you the benefits of using the Track View PRV when doing extensive work with controllers, and the dockable PRV when doing extensive work with notes. (And yes, you can draw in the Track View PRV as well as do "rubber band"-style automation. Let me know if you can't figure that out, and I'll walk you through it.) I recommend using the right tool for the right job.
 
O yeah, keeping this window open while trying to add synths and instruments.    "Insert Soft Synth" ... I uncheck "Enable Midi Output".     Over .. and over ... and over .. .and over   and over.

 
I can't test this out right now to confirm 100%, but IIRC if you don't want to do that, uncheck "Enable MIDI Output," and uncheck "Ask This Every Time." Now your synthesizer will open up without the dialog box and without MIDI output enabled. If you want to change those defaults, open Insert Synth Options and make your changes (like "All Stereo Outputs" or whatever), then open your instrument. Now you'll have all stereo outputs, and still no MIDI Output enabled.
 
It's not just these two, it is everywhere and all the time.
 
 
Your love of hyperbole is duly noted. But with all due respect, if you spent the same amount of time learning your tools that you spend complaining about them, I think you'd be much more productive. A viable option is to use simpler tools.
 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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williamcopper
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 20:11:28 (permalink)
Whatever!    I haven't committed to Cubase yet because of visual issues, and because I have a big treasure of CAL scripts that work wonders very fast.    
 
I know, I know .. sounds like I'm just hitting out at CW.  But what I really would like is very simple, a better program, with elegant solutions that are well-thought-through and that work easily. 
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 20:18:09 (permalink)
Anderton
Yes, it does. Maybe you're not aware that like Sound Forge, SONAR maintains a recent list of files...



sigh.  re-read what I said:  it's the DIRECTORY structure that Sonar flubs on. 
 
 
 
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williamcopper
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 20:20:17 (permalink)
Anderton
When I close a folder, it stays wherever it was. Your description of what you are doing is sufficiently opaque I have no idea how to reproduce your issue, which means I can't tell you how to solve it. Meanwhile, the rest of your problems are generally attributable to a lack of knowledge.



 
Are you really sure?    Or rather, yes, what you say is true, the FOLDER stays where it was.  But the SCREEN pops so that the first track is at the top, and the FOLDER, down there at #188 is still down there.  The problem is, you have to scroll to get back to it. 
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williamcopper
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 20:21:26 (permalink)
bitman
you might make a volunteer offering




I already made my volunteer offering.   True, just in the hopes that improvements might come along.
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williamcopper
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 20:23:42 (permalink)
Anderton
 
I can't test this out right now to confirm 100%, but IIRC if you don't want to do that, uncheck "Enable MIDI Output," and uncheck "Ask This Every Time." Now your synthesizer will open up without the dialog box and without MIDI output enabled. If you want to change those defaults, open Insert Synth Options and make your changes (like "All Stereo Outputs" or whatever), then open your instrument. Now you'll have all stereo outputs, and still no MIDI Output enabled.
 



You might want to test this out.   Nope, doesn't work.
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williamcopper
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 20:34:27 (permalink)
Anderton
 
Windows 7 does not have multi-client MIDI, which was introduced in Windows 10. Realistically, it's not Microsoft's fault you choose not to avail yourself of a solution. 



Then why is it that on Windows 7, Vegas Pro is quiet and calm about this issue, while Sonar gives me the same message every 60 seconds on the minute? 
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 20:34:36 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/04/16 10:32:39
Anderton
 
 
Your love of hyperbole is duly noted. But with all due respect, if you spent the same amount of time learning your tools that you spend complaining about them, I think you'd be much more productive. A viable option is to use simpler tools.
 
 

I cannot agree more with this. This is and will (probably) be the last post I write in a WC thread. It has nothing to do with the issues he presents, but solely to the way "questions" are asked. I will not try to "answer" his questions, as EVERYONE else has got it wrong. 
I would think a "guru" of "all things" should be able to correct any errors made by himself. And when you put guru in your specs, you should / would expect a different kind of answers than a person trying to get help for something he / she cannot figure out for themselves (as mere mortals).
Over and out

Ken Nilsen
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williamcopper
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 20:39:22 (permalink)
As to focus: here's a screen shot, sorry it's a big image, three screens.   Can you tell, Craig, which window has focus, and if it's the track view, upper left, which track has focus?    No. 
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 20:52:23 (permalink)
williamcopper
Anderton
 
Windows 7 does not have multi-client MIDI, which was introduced in Windows 10. Realistically, it's not Microsoft's fault you choose not to avail yourself of a solution. 



Then why is it that on Windows 7, Vegas Pro is quiet and calm about this issue, while Sonar gives me the same message every 60 seconds on the minute? 


Assuming what everyone has posted is true and I will assume that it is until proven otherwise, through your own logic Vegas Pro must be assigned the status of low standards in programming. :-) I freely admit I have never used it.


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gustabo
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 20:52:58 (permalink)
williamcopper
As to focus: here's a screen shot, sorry it's a big image, three screens.   Can you tell, Craig, which window has focus, and if it's the track view, upper left, which track has focus?    No. 


The Piano Roll does, change your visual settings in Windows and get rid of the transparency...




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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 20:56:38 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/04/16 10:34:18
Ken I view Mr. Copper's posts as a depository of hyperbole too. I was thinking as I read through his posts here how antagonistic they were. I also felt I was being insulted by the way he proclaims poor programing. After all I use the darn problem. I don't see the problems he seems to see. I'm glad Craig countered every point he made because it shows not poor programing but a poor user with no apparent ability to learn how to use the program. Something we already know. 
 
I also agree for Mr. copper a different program or even a Mac might prove effective for him. Clearly a Windows based DAW is not compatible with his work flow. I would like not to have to read how awful Sonar is when ever he posts. It wares on one.  
 
There are real issues with Sonar that need to be fixed in the meantime his posts just clog up the forum with a bunch of non issues. True he may have found a problem once or twice but generally his posts are due to a severe lack of knowledge.
 
This is a pleasant place to help each other because we respect the choice each made in getting Sonar. It is something of a slap to all members to continue to bash relentlessly a program we have chosen for our use above so many others.       

Best
John
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John T
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 21:02:05 (permalink)
williamcopper
 
 
I know, I know .. sounds like I'm just hitting out at CW. 


Not to me. Honestly, it sounds like you think everything sucks. Glass quarter full at best.

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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 21:07:46 (permalink)
williamcopper
Anderton
When I close a folder, it stays wherever it was. Your description of what you are doing is sufficiently opaque I have no idea how to reproduce your issue, which means I can't tell you how to solve it. Meanwhile, the rest of your problems are generally attributable to a lack of knowledge.



 
Are you really sure?    Or rather, yes, what you say is true, the FOLDER stays where it was.  But the SCREEN pops so that the first track is at the top, and the FOLDER, down there at #188 is still down there.  The problem is, you have to scroll to get back to it. 



The screen doesn't scroll either. Maybe it's because I don't have 188 tracks, but I do have more than will fit on the screen. I can't do anything with such vague descriptions, you need to provide steps to reproduce.
 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 21:14:49 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/04/15 21:33:05
williamcopper
Anderton
Yes, it does. Maybe you're not aware that like Sound Forge, SONAR maintains a recent list of files...



sigh.  re-read what I said:  it's the DIRECTORY structure that Sonar flubs on. 

 
Re-read what you wrote: "Does sonar remember where the last entry was, the way Sound Forge does?"
 
Yes, it does. Since you didn't specify what from the directory structure you wanted remembered, but did specifically mention "where the last entry was," I answered your question as best I could given your lack of specificity. I had to take a guess at what you meant by "entry," and I assumed that meant project, since it seems what you would want is being able to recall recent projects.
 
You could simply avoid any problems completely by not being so sloppy in the way you organize your work, which is your responsibility.
 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 21:16:44 (permalink)
John
Ken I view Mr. Copper's posts as a depository of hyperbole too. I was thinking as I read through his posts here how antagonistic they were. I also felt I was being insulted by the way he proclaims poor programing. After all I use the darn problem. I don't see the problems he seems to see. I'm glad Craig countered every point he made because it shows not poor programing but a poor user with no apparent ability to learn how to use the program. Something we already know. 
 
I also agree for Mr. copper a different program or even a Mac might prove effective for him. Clearly a Windows based DAW is not compatible with his work flow. I would like not to have to read how awful Sonar is when ever he posts. It wares on one.  
 
There are real issues with Sonar that need to be fixed in the meantime his posts just clog up the forum with a bunch of non issues. True he may have found a problem once or twice but generally his posts are due to a severe lack of knowledge.
 
This is a pleasant place to help each other because we respect the choice each made in getting Sonar. It is something of a slap to all members to continue to bash relentlessly a program we have chosen for our use above so many others.       


I had a totally different post ready but decided I would not stoop to those levels. But I concur with this being a great place IF you WANT HELP, or help someone. But some I do not bother to help / check status of problems anymore. It's a shame...

Ken Nilsen
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 21:17:22 (permalink)
williamcopper
Anderton
 
I can't test this out right now to confirm 100%, but IIRC if you don't want to do that, uncheck "Enable MIDI Output," and uncheck "Ask This Every Time." Now your synthesizer will open up without the dialog box and without MIDI output enabled. If you want to change those defaults, open Insert Synth Options and make your changes (like "All Stereo Outputs" or whatever), then open your instrument. Now you'll have all stereo outputs, and still no MIDI Output enabled.
 



You might want to test this out.   Nope, doesn't work.




What doesn't work? Is following my steps not showing what I'm seeing? Is the MIDI output still enabled even when Preferences shows that it isn't? I need to find an instrument with MIDI out so I can check further.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 21:24:33 (permalink)
williamcopper
Anderton
 
Windows 7 does not have multi-client MIDI, which was introduced in Windows 10. Realistically, it's not Microsoft's fault you choose not to avail yourself of a solution. 



Then why is it that on Windows 7, Vegas Pro is quiet and calm about this issue, while Sonar gives me the same message every 60 seconds on the minute? 




I have Vegas Pro and I have SONAR. Provide steps to reproduce. Of course if Vegas has already grabbed the ports, then SONAR is going to give you an error message. 
 
I wish you would be more interested in finding solutions than being "right." I realize you've said you hardly ever make mistakes, but the reality is you make a lot of them, and we need to separate out what is truly a SONAR problem vs. what is a lack of understanding. It is not possible to file a bug report without indicating the circumstances under which the "bug" occurs. Which program did you open first? What is Device Manager showing for your MIDI ports? Does your interface have multiple ports or just the usual 1-16 channels?

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#29
John T
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Re: low standards in programming 2016/04/15 21:24:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/04/16 10:36:49
I think you're wasting your time Craig. If William actually wanted help with a problem, he'd ask for it, I'm sure.

http://johntatlockaudio.com/
Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
#30
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