Earwax

ch.huey
I talked to a friend a while back, and she told me her teenage son was in his room creating music. I asked if he was playing his bass, and she said 'Playing his bass? No, he's making music, he has his (beatstep?) out and is using loops to find something he likes.' She went on in a little more detail but I got the picture - he didn't even need to play an instrument to make music, despite playing one. He wants stuff to show his friends as soon as he finishes it. I can understand that.

I asked if he ever sat down with an instrument, wrote music and lyrics, figured out an arrangement, then used his software as a tool to record his composition, revise it and then improve it. He hadn't. I guess it hadn't occured to him that he could do that, or that anyone ever did that at any point..

I find this incredibly hard to believe. How did he think the loops he was using were made?? Is he blessed with magical thinking? Did you actually have a conversation with him about his thoughts on musical creation, or with his mom? What program could he possibly have used that would magically close his mind to the reality of, oh I don’t know…, who made the loops he was using, and how they were made? He’s never heard of a recording studio?
 

I would say they are working at a higher level of abstraction, where the nitti gritty of how the loops came to be is not necessarily of interest ... what is important is how they sound and what you can do with them. 
There are a number of "Live" like loop apps on iPhone/Pad ... like Novations Launchpad, Blocks etc. 
The basic apps are free, you pay for features and loop packs. The latest free for Launchpad is called : "Future House Fusion" and comes "with synthetic textures" :) 
Pretty much anybody who can touch a screen can be a producer, much in the same way anybody able to hold a guitar can be a musician. Whether it is interesting to listen to depends as before on the mind behind it all. 

cparmerlee
And to take that one step farther, let's say I can use a Bandlab app on my phone to harmonize my song by selecting chords.  And then those chords find their way into a SONAR chord track.  Once there, those same chords can automatically (optionally) force the MIDI for the bass and lead synth to conform to those chords.  And then maybe I change the chord in the cloud, causing my SONAR bass line to update itself as the information is all synchronized.
 
How cool would that be?

This would be terrible! Although you have written "optionally". I see those automatic things spook all over in nowadays applications. Most of the time they are out of control, i.e. many users feel that the apps are not doing what they told them! And so we all are wasting a lot of time in the web to figure out how to configure or hack those software monsters! Additionally I feel the risk that such complex automatic things could grow a lot of new bugs and change track data even for users who have switched it off!

cparmerlee
Basically I think Bandlab is a positive thing, but everybody here should understand Bandlab will be appealing to the next generation.  They have to.  That's where the only real business is.  That does not have to be a bad thing, but old-timers should be prepared to open their minds to new ways of doing things that are not just like the "old SONAR".

Just give me a recent version of Sonar Platinum that I can use as is for the rest of my life and I'll be very happy*.
I'll gladly accept 'lifetime use' instead of 'lifetime updates'.
Bandlab can then do whatever it wants and I won't care.
 
* Just like I'll be using Office 2010 Pro forever (and I'm happy to remain on Win7 forever as well).
 

If you have a registered copy of Sonar Platinum it is already set for 'lifetime use' just like Office 2010. I'm just looking forward to the next BandLab announcement so that (hopefully) we can finally drop all this "lifetime updates" dialogue!

Re: ch.huey
I'd go along with that.
I'm still not happy unless I can play something all the way through - THEN I record it.
Playing it in small chunks &/or looping just isn't how I like to work.
Each to his own though, but I for one would appreciate that basic functionality continuing.
 
The dictionary definition of music is 'Rhythmic Noise', so however you get to the end result is valid.
Whatever works for you. The rest is subjective.

groverken
.... I'm just looking forward to the next BandLab announcement so that (hopefully) we can finally drop all this "lifetime updates" dialogue!

Hah! I love the naïveté of that statement.
 
No matter what BandLab announces there WILL BE immense, intense and eternal "lifetime update" dialog.
 
Mark my words. 

I have only one request:
1. Make Sonar useable with Control Surfaces like the Nucleus and many other Control Surfaces...just saying!!! 

iRelevant
 
I would say they are working at a higher level of abstraction, 

Really? Doing loops is a higher level of abstraction? I thought that when Mozart was composing a new piece in his head, WHILE putting down on paper the one just finished, THAT was a higher level of abstraction. How times have changed...

The (arguably) most groundbreaking band in the world even occasioanlly used loops.
 
Maybe you heard of them?
 
The Beatles.
 

Kamikaze
 
IMO this is what BandLab needs to do...
 
<snip>

Some very good points made here!  The focus on the core skillsets of Sonar is a must. 
 

Mixing, Arranging, Sequencing and recording

 
If it isn't something that Sonar can do as well, or better than the competition, cut it out.  Harsh, but necessary to avoid a jack of all trades mediocrity.  Sonar needs a strong identity to appeal to the future uninitiated DAW users, or else the competition will win.
 
As far as the Matrix is concerned.  Nice idea, but Live can do it better, so just let it go.
 
Same with chord tracks.  It's a nice idea, but Cubase can do it already.  It hasn't happened in Sonar yet, so just let the feature request go in peace.
 
Notation?  Get a dedicated notation program.  Studio One and Live are both successful without a notation view.
 
Trim the weeds, and focus on areas that are the strongest!