• SONAR
  • [Solved] Recording snag
2015/01/07 13:05:25
LENovik
Several months ago, I had written in to this site that I could no longer record an audio track on Sonar 8.5 without having sound from other tracks being recorded at the same time. I knew that I had previously been able to do this. Shortly after that, I realized that the problem was that I was working with MIDI tracks. To combat this problem, I simply made a course audio recording of all my MIDI tracks, and then solo’ed this newly recorded track while I recorded a fresh track. I did this, of course, so I would have a reference to record to.
I have since updated to X3. Now, I can’t seem to do what I have just described. One of the major functions of a DAW is that one can record one track, and while listening, record another and another to come up with a song. As I’ve said, when I solo a reference audio track and try to record a fresh track, I can’t prevent the reference track from being recorded as well. Any ideas why this is occurring?
I have a Dell Core i5 with a Mackie mixer, Scarlett 2i2 sound box, MIDI sport 4x4 MIDI interface, and various hardware synths.
Thanks.
LNovik
2015/01/07 14:51:40
brundlefly
SONAR, by itself, does not have the ability to record the output of one track to another (as much as some users would like to be able to do that), and as far as I can tell, neither does your Scarlett interface. Assuming your onboard soundcard isn't getting involved (which is shouldn't be if you're using the preferred ASIO driver mode with your Scarlett), I have to assume that you have something miswired or misrouted involving your Mackie Mixer.
 
What I/O connections are you making to your Mackie?
2015/01/08 01:05:32
Kalle Rantaaho
Usually the reason to unwanted re-recording of previously recorded tracks is that there is a setting called "What You hear" or "Stereo Mix" active in sound card settings. If you really are using only the Scarlett and its ASIO (NOT ASIO4ALL) drivers and your mobo soundchip is not selected anywhere in SONARs settings, I find the re-recording mysterious.
 
 
2015/01/08 02:03:47
mettelus
Please correct me if I misread the OP, but it seems you were initially recording MIDI in 8.5?
 
The process you are referring to is called "overdubbing" and this works well in all versions of SONAR. Basically record one track (or so) at a time while listening to the pre-existing tracks. I will throw out a couple things, because I am not sure I am clear on your true issue.
 
  1. Be careful not to "echo input" or arm for recording any track you are listening to when recording another.
  2. Run your Scarlett 2i2 in ASIO mode, so that you are using the Focusrite drivers written for it.
  3. If recording audio via microphone, be sure to monitor the original mix via headphones.
  4. If recording MIDI, the default input is "MIDI Omni" so channels with "input echo" on will sound while recording another channel, but will not record (as long as they are NOT armed). As long as the pre-recorded tracks are not echoing (inputs) or armed, you will still hear them play back while recording the track you are working on next.
I may have missed the problem in the OP, but it seems #1 above is/was the issue you were having. A way to check... is if you recorded another track, did the notes actually record into the previous tracks? With input echo you will hear them "fire" but won't actually record any data if not armed.
2015/01/10 07:24:04
LENovik
I have checked a few of the items mentioned above, and will continue to do so. For instance, I have checked my Scarlett, and it is NOT on the "Direct Monitoring" switch. I have also tried configuring my Mackie mixer different ways, but that doesn't seem to make a difference. I could describe how it is hooked up, but the first big thing I should share that I just realized this morning is: given a common song, when I first open it in Sonar 8.5, and then solo an audio track while recording a 2nd audio track, none of the solo'ed track comes thru to the newly recorded track. Thus, I can use the first track as a timing reference when recording something. However, when I then try the same thing with the same song on Sonar x3, the solo'ed audio track DOES come right thru (ie, gets recorded) into my newly recorded audio track. I don't see any input echo active on either of my tracks or on the top of the screen.
Any ideas?
Thanks.
LNovik
2015/01/10 09:30:58
LENovik
Mettelus said the following:
  1. Be careful not to "echo input" or arm for recording any track you are listening to when recording another.
  2. Run your Scarlett 2i2 in ASIO mode, so that you are using the Focusrite drivers written for it.
  3. If recording audio via microphone, be sure to monitor the original mix via headphones
  4. As I reply to this, I can't seem to remove the "4." from the beginning of this line, so it looks like this is what Mettelus is saying. However, I am now responding to his note. As I said above, I don't have any "input on" that I know of. I AM running in ASIO mode. ANd, I do realize that if I am playing the reference tracks thru speakers, they will be picked up by the microphones. 
  5. Re: Brundlefly's note, the input to my Scarlett comes from Main stereo outs on my Mackie. The outs on the Scarlett go into one of the stereo channels strips on my Mackie. There are different buttons to have them channeled one way or the other, but, as I said, the system seems to work on my Sonar 8.5.
I looked under Preferences/Audio/Devices, and only my Focusrite Scarlett is listed--ie, I don't see any MoBo's listed (though I do enjoy saying this newly acquired word.) Kalle says: Usually the reason to unwanted re-recording of previously recorded tracks is that there is a setting called "What You hear" or "Stereo Mix" active in sound card settings. Interestingly, I went into the Programs list and opened up anything I could find on Focusrite or Scarlett. There wasn't much, and certainly no setting for "What your Hear" or "Stereo Mix". However, as I've said, there are setting on the Scarlett box itself, and I have disabled the Direct Monitoring switch. 
Thanks again for your time.
LNovik
2015/01/10 10:50:20
mettelus
LENovik
Re: Brundlefly's note, the input to my Scarlett comes from Main stereo outs on my Mackie. The outs on the Scarlett go into one of the stereo channels strips on my Mackie. There are different buttons to have them channeled one way or the other, but, as I said, the system seems to work on my Sonar 8.5.



Thank you for your clarification. Based on your reply I would check your Mackie routings, since you could very well have a physically cabled loopback going on (although confusing as to why SONAR 8.5 doesn't also do it). I am not familiar with the Mackie, but if you are sending the main outputs from the Mackie to the Focusrite inputs, you do not want to be sending anything from the Focusrite back to the Mackie, as the Mackie will want to pass those signals to its main outputs if those channels are not zeroed (and may get crosstalk even if zeroed depending on condition). That particular part of your signal routing stood out in your reply.
 
Something to try quick... physically disconnect the cables from the Focusrite outputs that go to the Mackie and try using headphones on the Focusrite while recording a track. Does this eliminate recording the reference tracks back into the new track?
 
I am also confused with the routing you mentioned above, since it is unclear where your monitoring speakers are connected with your setup? If using the Mackie as an input mixer, I would expect Recording Inputs-> Mackie-> Scarlett-> DAW-> Scarlett-> Monitors.
2015/01/10 14:17:40
LENovik
OK, the problem is fixed. Thanks for the input, since it pointed me in the right direction. Specifically, it got me looking at the Mackie Mixer manual. What I found--and what I had forgotten---is that the mixer has mutes on each channel. However, those mutes can also be changed from mute to an alternate mix bus. That mix can be sent to the headphones. Another button on the right side of the mixer can be depressed to assign that all to the main mix. Thus, when I am listening without headphones with my speakers, I should assign the output from Sonar to the main mix. However, when I want to simply record and listen to a reference track in my ears, I undo the "Assign to Main mix" button. When I tried this while recording my voice into a fresh track, I only got my voice--just the result I was looking for.
Thanks again for your feedback. Hope that is clear.
LNovik
2015/01/13 13:28:00
MondoArt
I read all of this thread, all the while thinking, it's likely a alt-bus routing problem on your Mackie.  Glad you got it solved!  With a bunch of hardware synths, this is really the best option, cheaper than a multi-input interface and actually really flexible, too.
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