Gid'day,

As the year comes to a close I have re-accessed my work, having contacts in the music biz and received feedback (catchy, melodic but a little old hat) and having posted my work on the CW Song forum for feedback I feel that most of the songs and instrumentals posted there are superb but 'old-hat' and also not to forget those great 'old' cover songs.  (no offense intended), I do love all those old classics.

I guess most of the works posted in the CW Song-Forum are mostly from older age groups? (40+),  I'm also 40+, but I don't want my songs to be labelled 'old-hat' don't get me wrong I love all the old stuff...Classic Orchestrations, Blues, Jazz, BBKing, Beatles, Eric Clapton, Rolling Stones, Led Zep, Jeff Beck, Pink Floyd, Metallica, (too many more bands to list), right up to current new bands!  Everything from Jazz, Rock, Pop Rock, Heavy Metal to Prog'House, Hip Hop, IDM and everything inbetween.

*  I don't want my music to be labelled as 'Old Hat'.   Yeah although I prefer to tweak my own sounds my music productions are sounding a little too cookie cutter, old-hat and needs to sound modern, I want to produce more modern cutting edge productions. That's what this discussion is all about!!!  (NOTE: I am not talking about mixing, audio processing techniques).

I have done a lot of reading up (manuals, reviews) on the latest plugins, listened to lots of demo's particularly (1)..Spectrasonics Omnisphere, (2)..Heavyocity Evolve, (3)..Sample Logic Synergy, (4)..NI Absynth, (5)..Rob Papen's Blue.  I'm interested in modern, otherworldly sounds.  I think these plugins can be useful for cutting edge 'song' production which is my main goal, but of course they're ideal for filmscore work (particularly Evolve and Synergy) but I think those two plugins can be useful in some way for song production?. I just need to think 'Otherworldly' LOL!!

I've been experimenting with what I have, Ultra-Analog synth, SonikSynth and Cakewalk's classic's (various softsynths).  Most of those sounds are OK but a little old and static compared to a lot of the newer plugins such as Omniphere and Synergy. 

I've used CC# to add automated changes to the tonal characterics to produce 'evolving/motion pads'.   Also experimented with 'layering textures', synth pads, voices/choir, strings/brass ens, then adding lot of effects such as stereo delay which certainly helps add a more modern sound.  Also been experimenting with 'arpeggios' to add motion/rhythm to my soundscapes.

Arpeggios? since I have pretty good piano skills I found it better to create my own in the PRV because to me the PRV is the ultimate-unlimited workspace for a more flexible creation of arpeggios. OK! So now I have pads that evolve (CC#, Layers and Velocity), and I have modern sounding motion/rhythm (Arpeggios).

WHOA!! Having to do all that is a lot of extra work!! Maybe if I had something like Synergy I could get all that happening quicker?.  I guess music production is a labour of love.  It's not only about what you have it's how you use it.  There are various workflow methods to achieve good end results, the goal being 'Modern, Cutting Edge Music Productions'.  And afterall that effort the 'Song' still remains to be the most important factor,,, good lyrics and performances, strong melodies, hooks and good arrangements.


 

I just like writing songs, and if what come out sounds old-hat then sobeit.

The Song Remains The Same

I don't think new gear is always the best way to get a new sound. I think being creative and imaginative with what you have goes a long way.

Let me put it this way, with digital recording we are all spoilt for choice. Even a basic music creation software will come bundled with more stuff than the average old analogue studio had. Before everything went digital and we were still working with analogue, the whole process seemed to be more creative, imaginative and skilled. Just by using the gear we had at hand, we could create wonderful new sounds, effects and techniques just by manipulating tape, setting up a bizarre effects chain, and by going out and recording sounds on a portable recorder.

In other words sound creation used to be much more the task of the engineer, producer and artist, where as now days it's too easy to reach for a plugin and dial in a preset, and a lot of the creativity, imagination and skill has fallen away. In theory though digital and software should give you more opportunity to be creative as you have more at your disposal. Experimentation is what creates "new" sounds and styles.

I too, have faced this issue..... having submitted a number of tunes to music industry song request listings, and getting the feedback from those listings. Most say that the song is good, the production and recording superb however, the song sounds "dated", and unfortunately can not be used for that reason. "not contemporary"

Seeking the answer that no one seemed to know, I embarked on a journey to LA and a songwriter's convention. In the crowded meeting rooms, I found a glimmer of light and hope. In a nutshell, a song is dated by it's melody and groove. Now, obviously, there's a whole ton of stuff that goes into that one sentence. But that's it. Using certain synths and effects will also date a song.... use a Heil talk box in a song and it's 1970's all over again. Vocoders scream 80"s and so on.  Now, the auto-tuned sound will date music in the first decade of the new century.

To avoid a dated sound, the melody must be original and fresh sounding, and the groove/rythem should have a certain unpredictibility about it.  Use existing sounds in new ways and you will have a cool song. New sounds tend to get overused and that automatically dates the songs. Production can also date a song.

Looking for new fresh material in a new plug in or synth sound is not the answer, they are simply tools that are available to anyone else with the money to buy them...... you must look inside your creative mind for the answer..... no one can buy that off a shelf.


Edit: Country music.... still uses the same instrumentation as it did decades ago..... guitar, piano, steel, fiddle, bass, drums.... and the songs today are (for the most part) modern sounding, contemporary, songs.  You don't generally hear synths in country, so they are limited to using the same sounds...over and over again..... they make it fresh and contemporary by the melody and the groove.  Lyrically, every topic has been covered hundreds of times... but each time in a unique way...that too contributes to the contemporary feel of the song.

Screw that noise :-)

What do you expect when you send your music in to be reviewed by a 25 year old kid trying to pay off a degree in music marketing?

At the same time, ask your self how the Raising Sand album swept the Grammy's a few short years after the Amy Whitehouse old school RnB album did the same thing... a  few years after Bluegrass was seemingly *invented* with the release of Oh Brother Where Art Thou... right around the time that Rod Stewart scored his best selling productions of "standards".

Has any one heard of the Avett Brothers? If you haven't... you will.

Do not let a critic's ignorance of culture dissuade you from pursuing your inspiration.

all the best,
mike

"No one ever erected a statue to a critic."

mike_mccue


Screw that noise :-)

What do you expect when you send your music in to be reviewed by a 25 year old kid trying to pay off a degree in music marketing?

At the same time, ask your self how the Raising Sand album swept the Grammy's a few short years after the Amy Whitehouse old school RnB album did the same thing... a  few years after Bluegrass was seemingly *invented* with the release of Oh Brother Where Art Thou... right around the time that Rod Stewart scored his best selling productions of "standards".

Has any one heard of the Avett Brothers? If you haven't... you will.

Do not let a critic's ignorance of culture dissuade you from pursuing your inspiration.

all the best,
mike

Very nicely said Mike! In some ways music evolves just like life on earth does. It constantly changes, and just like different species which are off shoots of life, we have different genres that also evolve in their own ways. However, unlike life, music also follows in fashion, and fashion revolves as well as evolves. In music as in fashion, ideas from the past come back into style as with Amy Winehouse and mini skirts etc. While the melody and groove may sound old, we do it differently and give it a modern edge, and that's evolution. Think about it. All the music we make today has evolved directly from the very first music we made hundreds of thousands of years ago.

Guitarhacker


In a nutshell, a song is dated by it's melody and groove.

Bingo...
and the harmony of that melody.
I hear a lot of chromatics in arrangements these days for what it's worth.
and don't forget to smash your mix.
 
The OP's topic has been grinding on me for some time.
I also have the 'Im dated' feel to everything I do.
probably cause I'm dated:)
Can't shake it, so I won't.
but I do keep tryin.
 
maybe this will help:
http://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100

Who cares if you sound 'dated'? Why not? Its your sound

If you want to freshen up your writing then don't think that a new VSTI will provide the magic, trust me all you'll end up doing is cycling through endless cool sounding presets and not doing anything!
 
Why not set yourself a number of challenges?
 
e.g. Today I will write in 3/4 time or
       Today is polka day!
 
Forcing yourself to think outside of your usual self inflicted constraints is a great way to come up with new and fresh ideas and sounds without having to fork out for new gear!

As long as it doesn't "sound humid"