BTW, MIKE....Raising Sand is my favorite album in like the last decade.  Very oldschool, for sure.

SongCraft,
 
I think, right or wrong, you're talking genre more than "time". JMO.
 
It seems to me Nickleback has done very well on what you're referencing to as "old school" or "old hat".
 
And just to add...2 years ago I posted my first song "Running Man" in the CW song forum.
I use Atmosphere and Stylus RMX in it. And I'm 54. Makes me think you're reading more than listening...but I could be wrong for the most part.
 
And for myself, I have to write, play and record what I feel and hear inside. Not what one may put a label or time on. And wouldn't saying "sounding modern" is "cookie cutter" also, the same thing you say you're wanting to avoid?
I wish you well on the road your on....but it sound's to confusing for me to travel down it.

This is not a comment on your music or recordings in particular, just a general statement...

I think a lot of the music here on the forum is maybe "old hat" not because of production techniques, the sounds of our instruments, synth samples, etc. as much as it is just a reflection of maturity and where we are at this point in our lives. What makes a lot of these newer bands sound "fresh and new" IMO is just that youthful energy, reckless abandon, etc. I'm not saying that you can' t have that in your 40s and 50s. Bruce Springsteen's "Living in the Future" off his Magic CD has tons of energy. The Red Hot Chilis Peppers can still get real funky and crazy, but on their last album most of the songs were kinda laid back. But you know what? It sounds more natural. Sometimes bands in their 50s singing about partying and rock-n-roll sound pretty lame. You shouldn't try to force attitude. Make the attitude genuine and honest, then find creative sounds and music ideas that help express that attitude.

Listen to Distant Towers' CD (pick it up if you haven't already!). It sounds fresh and creative, but doesn't sound like they're trying to pretend they're in their 20s.

a lot of modern recordings, are being done with vintage equipment.

the EQUIPMENT, does not have anything to do with it.

it's the choice of sound you record.
it's the choice of tones and capture.

it's the arrangements.


best advice i could give, would be to really study modern recordings, and FIGURE out why certain elements (drums, bass, guitars, vox) sound the way they do.

(NOTE: I am not talking about mixing, audio processing techniques).

I don't understand how you can remove these two very important structures of any produced song. In fact, you say, "'layering textures'", which depends on the mixing and audio processing to make it work. Ensembles, various newer or different synth packages and even plugins can not just be thrown at a song, they have to be mixed in and processed properly to make any difference. So ignoring the mix or audio processing may cripple any efforts at reaching the goal.

That being said, I am not entirely sure what you are looking for. I am not trying to be argumentive, maybe it is more ignorance on my part, since others have already posted comments that make it appear that they understand your point. So, if you would bear with me, could you post a link or two to the type of sound you wish to emulate or achieve? Even better, if you could post links to the same song, one done "old hat", and the other done with a more modern or contemporary feel?

One other thought, what is considered "modern, cutting edge, and contemporary" today has a very short shelf life, since tomorrow (or just several hours) ushers in a new "modern, cutting edge, and contemporary". In contrast, "old hat", or "traditional" or even "cookie cutter" can be referred to as time tested, and, more importantly, marketable over a larger spectrum of the buying public.

Later
Albert 

I think a song, if it's really good, can cut through no matter how 'dated' or contemporarily correct it sounds.   If the song has that magic in it than it will work PERIOD.  (Remember Crazy Little THing Called Love by Queen?.....done in an outdated 'old' style and yet very very fresh)  There is a lot to be said for sounding fresh and on the edge but it does not = good song, necessarily.   As Albert says, trendy can also be the kiss of death.   The more up to date we make our songs today the more they will CERTAINLY be outdated soon, whereas the more heart and soul we pour into the basic song itself, the more certain it will be timeless.   

 

Thanks guys :-)

Wow! So many excellent comments, advise :-)  I don't know where to begin to reply to each of you except to reply in general overview of what's been said.  Thank you all, greatly appreciated.

I don't want to give up my roots (which dates to back to 60's, 70's music, I think I'm trying to do a 'fusion' of old with modern genres.  I guess that's fitting for me because I like a very wide range of styles  right up current genres.

I don't dismiss audio processing and mixing as not important.   For this discussion I want to focus on the 'source'.   Isn't it funny, no matter how well you try to mix it when things are not right it's usually at the 'source' thereby the 'sound', the 'performance' and the 'technique', and the way that performance is done is important.

I always take critics comments with a grain of salt.   The same applies when I comment on other's songs in the Song-Forum.  That said.... I have sat in on meetings with managers (aged in their 50's) who would talk about for example; 'the beat' needs to be not only modern sounding but played in such a way that its more like 'Prog'-House' or 'Hip-Hop'   Ahem!! I like to inject a little 'fusion' I guess that would be more interesting.

OK! So the music is done, superbly mix, mastered!  Then there's the 'marketing' and costs to consider, it's easier to sell someone who is already known (I'm sure the press will be on to them) even if these new artist are known on some Soap (TV-Series) but can't sing that good.

Now compared to selling someone who is unknown, for the unknown usually record companies prefers to hear a more contemporary style, if it sounds old-hat? they be a little concerned and place it in the 'hard to sell', then discuss how much money is the record company willing to gamble with?.  No one can predict if a song will hit #1 or at worse reach the top-ten.   All these TV shows and Radio stations have program managers that decide who gets a spot and how often!  Getting lots of TV and Radio play is important.

If you take a great contemporary song and a great yesteryear song and played them back to back with just an acoustic guitar and vox, it is unlikely that a martian would be able to tell you which one was written earlier.

My point is that it is important to write something that moves you and your audience and also stands the solo instrument and originality test.  i.e. is the melody and song idea strong enough to live naked on its own or does it need to be shrouded in instrumentation to add interest.  The originality test is clear.  Should be able to stand on its own without people referencing what it reminds them of.

I believe that it is at this point as you start to think about production that you can start to make the difference on making it contemporary.  One danger is to serve the need to sound modern rather than serve the needs of the song.  This means that even before thinking about instrumentation one needs to have a focused and clear idea of the emotion one wants to convey.  Once you have that, you can cycle though a number of modern sounds (drum types, tempos, patches) etc to find new ways to creatively evoke the intent of the song you wrote in the first place.

Sounds easy but I have yet to do it:)  Might try tonight.

bdickens


"No one ever erected a statue to a critic."

Not so:
 
http://www.pbase.com/steveyaphotos/image/87512476
 

Song Craft, assuming you want to stretch (I think it's always a good thing to stretch but not just to appease other opinions, of course... as others have said).  But if you take a couple of songs in the style you want to emulate and break them down and learn the arrangement and so forth you should be well on your way.  Music is music after all.  If by modern you mean more MIDI oriented than Sonar has all the tools for that.