2013/05/02 09:16:03
spacey
joakes


Wow, unreal. Luckily, this could not happen in Europe.

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J

Well I hope that thought makes you feel better.
 
I realize that you may or may not how your presentation of this horrible event would or could be taken.
You bring up the news of an American babies life being extinguished and the devastation of an unknown amount of family and friends and then shove a European pie in American faces.
I can say without doubt that you are luckier than you will probably ever realize.
 
2013/05/02 11:25:31
AT
Unloaded guns have killed more people than loaded ones - at least in peacetime.

Anybody that gives a gun to a 5-year old deserves to be shot (the adult, not child).  Might as well put them behind the wheel of car while doing 60 on the freeway. 

Adult supervision is the only way to learn 'em young, as we say in the south.   I had a bb gun at 6 or so to shoot at the ranch, but had to wait until I was 9 for a .22.  My wife was worried about guns in the house,  even tho guns, mags and ammo are separate and hidden.  So when our girls were 5 or 6 we went to the ranch and I let them shoot a pistol.  I helped, so the kick (even from a .380) didn't smack them in the head.  The power and noise (we were right next to the big tin barn so there was something for the report to reflect off of) made quite an impression on them and they never showed much curiosity about guns after that.  The older one now comes out sometimes to the ranch   to shoot while I work.  And she is old enough now to know the rules and smart enough not to buck 'em.

@
2013/05/02 12:00:50
JClosed
I really cannot understand one single bit why people even want to have a murder machine like a gun. I am really glad living in the Netherlands, where giving a gun to someone is absolutely unthinkable, whatever the age a person has. Gun possession here strictly regulated, and you have to have to pass a formal exam (and have to possess a membership from a organization that has a safe room where you can shoot) to even touch a weapon. I guess 99.9% of the people here do not even want to touch a gun if they would get payed for it. They don't like it and they do not want it. Yeah -criminals and police have guns, but the "man in the street"? No way!
2013/05/02 12:24:16
Mesh
JClosed


I really cannot understand one single bit why people even want to have a murder machine like a gun. I am really glad living in the Netherlands, where giving a gun to someone is absolutely unthinkable, whatever the age a person has. Gun possession here strictly regulated, and you have to have to pass a formal exam (and have to possess a membership from a organization that has a safe room where you can shoot) to even touch a weapon. I guess 99.9% of the people here do not even want to touch a gun if they would get payed for it. They don't like it and they do not want it. Yeah -criminals and police have guns, but the "man in the street"? No way!

Although gun laws aren't what this post is about, your comment can be debated and possibly proven to be incorrect. In a simple Google search, I found the following:
 
Nations with stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those that do not. The study found that the nine European nations with the lowest rates of gun ownership (5,000 or fewer guns per 100,000 population) have a combined murder rate three times higher than that of the nine nations with the highest rates of gun ownership (at least 15,000 guns per 100,000 population).
 
For example, Norway has the highest rate of gun ownership in Western Europe, yet possesses the lowest murder rate. In contrast, Holland's murder rate is nearly the worst, despite having the lowest gun ownership rate in Western Europe. Sweden and Denmark are two more examples of nations with high murder rates but few guns. 
 
Full article is found here: http://theacru.org/acru/harvard_study_gun_control_is_counterproductive/
 
 
 
The truly sad part is, too many irresponsible people have posession of guns.
2013/05/02 14:20:28
JClosed
Sigh - And we eat more cheese, so we are bigger murderers right? 

  Come one. Those numbers really mean nothing. You know the Netherlands have one of the biggest harbors (Rotterdam) of Europe? This makes the Netherlands one of the biggest targets of organized crime, because it is one of the biggest main transport ports to the rest of of Europe. Those murders are in most cases hard drug related, and have nothing to do with gun ownership (or lack of it). 

Anyway - I is still true most Dutch people do not want to have a gun. And to tell you the truth - my jaw just dropped on the floor when I saw that advertisement for guns for children. I really was thinking it was a joke at first, but then I realized it was reality. Me and my girlfriend where staring at it and shaking our heads in total disbelief. We really could not get our heads around it. I think it is just as difficult to tell you why we do not want guns, as it is for you to tell us why we should have them. 

I do not want to go in discussion, but if that boy did not had this gun as birthday present, the chances his sister was still alive at this very moment are very, very big in my opinion.

And that is the last thing I will say about it...
2013/05/02 15:29:11
AT
Some may find it hard to believe, but guns is fun.  The same way some people get their jollies power strumming in front of a stack of marshalls, or plugging in an old, cranky analog synth.  Done under safe circumstances, shooting is a thrill for many, if not most people.  You should try it some time.  You don't even need half a brain to be safe shooting, just follow a few rules.  Always assume a gun is loaded and don't point it anywhere you don't possibly want to hit - like your sister.  Realize the bullet goes a long way so don't shoot it where it can hit something farther than you want to hit.  Likewise, shotgun pellets (and even bullets) can skip over water like stones if at a shallow angle.  I learned that by putting some holes in the same tin barn I talked about in the above post.  Guess who had to relay more tin?  Important lesson learned, as well as a few new words from my grandfather.

As far as kids - rural culture (and those from it and now in the suburbs) isn't about guns but they are an important part of it.  When I was a kid you progressed.  BB/pellet gun, .22, shotgun, deer rifle.  If you wanted to fire a cannon, you joined the army.  Nobody made you shoot, or hunt, but it was as common as grass and everyone I knew took safety seriously.  I can see if you didn't grow up around guns how they could be scary, esp. the way hollywood presents them.  That is is mostly ignorance on hollywood's part - and anybody who expects the truth from film/TV is silly.  Just like not going to a hospital when you are sick because that is where people and die.

Unlike Europe, the US has a mythology about guns, freedom and individuality.  The main reason we don't have Elisabeth as queen was not only because of Washington's army, which couldn't beat the English, but the fact the Brits couldn't hold the countryside.  There were always more good ole boys available w/ rifles than the English could muster to resupply their garrisons.  Then you have the wild west, and Samuel Colt's .44 great equalizer.  A lot of American mythology is tied up w/ guns. 

@
2013/05/02 20:28:28
sharke
The frontier history of the USA it at the root of its widespread gun ownership and the gun owning rights that came with it. Like it or not, America has a very different history to Europe, and guns are an integral part of it. It's all very well to sit in a comfy chair somewhere like the Netherlands and express incredulity that guns could be a part of family life in another country, but the cultural history of the two places are entirely different. 

As for the kid shooting his sister, well that's just a horrible tragedy brought on by parental neglect. I'm pretty sure there are equally as disturbing cases of fatal child neglect in the Netherlands too. A simple box of matches in the wrong hands is enough to invite catastrophe (I should know, I burned our house down when I was three ). 




2013/05/02 20:39:20
trimph1
Well, I'm not trying to enter into any hoohaw here but, just look around at some other countries. The US is not the only country that has issues with this sort of stuff.
2013/05/02 20:46:33
sharke
trimph1


Well, I'm not trying to enter into any hoohaw here but, just look around at some other countries. The US is not the only country that has issues with this sort of stuff.

I believe Brazil has a murder rate 4 times higher than the US. I used to live with a couple of guys from São Paulo. Some of the things they told me about life over there were terrifying. 
2013/05/02 20:56:17
Mystic38
Lets be honest here, things like this will be repeated many hundreds of times a year in the USA... its simply how it is and nobody really gives a crap... if they did, things would change.

The degree of civilised control, regulation and use of firearms is clearly listed here in the link...click on the "total firearm related death rate" to rank and see what countries are equivalent to the USA..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Colombia, Mexico, Swaziland, South Africa..... yup..thats where The USA ranks.
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