Enlighten myself?!! How about you get off your high horse buddy...

BTW, I totally agree w/ Steve's comments - but I don't agree w/ the fact that he posted it here. 

some of the posts in this thread are why I have not been feeling as welcome here as I used to feel.  just another reason I haven't been around as much. 

cest le vie

backwoods


Well, I'm going to Butt out because of TOS but a guy who ewears Dawkins and Hitchens badges on his lapel is like a guy with a kick me sign on his back.

Yup...that would be the loving christian's first response...kicking...or maybe stone throwing...no wait...that's muslims.   How's about just getting along?  Hmmm, ol pal?
 

Sorry you don't feel welcome, Beagle. Sincerely. I've always enjoyed your presence around here.

You know, I'm often feeling the same way on these boards. For some people it seems, being an atheist simply means that you don't care about certain things, or that their beliefs and their right to believe take precedent over others' lack of beliefs. As if it were just the norm and as if we, atheists, were merely tolerated.

The above was a good example of that I think with someone claiming that an atheist quote is an invitation to kick him. If we were in a church, I'd understand. But here, on a music software forum? Why is it okay to proudly claim religious belief but barely tolerable to claim one's atheism? Truth is it isn't. 

Personally, it irks me when someone "God blesses" me. But I shut up and focus on their good intention. That in no way means that I accept that my atheism must yield to their faith. I simply do the civilized thing. But being told God bless you for me is almost like being told Hail Satan as a christian... Few christians would put up w/ that uh?

Similarly, it is assumed that it is I as an atheist who needs to be enlighten. Newsflash, I own quite a few copies of the Bible and I have read them and studied them - for years. As well other sacred books. I even own a frickin copy of the frickin the Book of Mormon, the Jehovah's Witness' own version of the Bible, etc... 

The odd thing is that, this is one unique place - or at least, it used to be - where there is an incredible sense of community. 

But it's also the  forum that is constantly drifting towards the same topics (guns, religion, politics, etc...). We have off topic forums on Logic boards. I've never seen anyone "God blessing" another or talking about Republicans or Democrats or guns. In fact, I've never seen a music software forum where any of these things are such obsessions.

Usually, I try to stay out of these - some people who I really appreciate have point of views that are the exact opposite of mine and I don't want to ruin the good things by focusing on the stuff upon which we can't agree. I don't want to start hating this or that guy or to be pissed at someone who is otherwise a very good buddy.

Anyway, recently, the vibe of the whole place has changed quite a bit, imho. It's like walking in your old favorite bar and quite a lot of friends are missing while other just sit in their little corner arguing w/ one another. It's like not only the forum software is falling apart but the community itself is. It's pretty sad.

Rain - I respect you and always have.  if I have ever asked for God to bless you then I apologize for offending you, I really would not have had any idea that would be the case.  I do not try to force my views on anyone.  in fact, I considered myself agnostic for a long time and I understand we all have different beliefs and I try to respect that.

which is why I respect your beliefs to agree with Steve's comments, but I also agree with you that it shouldn't be posted here, especially in the manner that it was.

I've considered Steve a friend for several years now, but sadly some of the things he's said here and in previous posts have been hurtful and offensive to me. 

But he's not the only one.  and it's continuing even still.

and I'm not just jumping on the atheists, per se, either.  I do not condone the behavior of some of the Christian comments in this thread either.  and sadly this is not the first time things like that have happened either.

all of this makes me uncomfortable and sad.  and yes, lately this forum does seem to constantly drift toward guns religion and politics and it didn't used to be that way.

yes, very sad.

I appreciate your post Beagle. And I guess that we just proved that we can indeed coexist quite peacefully. :)

I'm hoping this forum will get back to what it was. I miss it.

Rain- I meant you could be enlightened to theological arguments by reading that book.  

I think craigb is right- this why we have TOS. Maybe it should apply to peoples internet signatures too.   

Sorry if I misunderstood that, then.

I am an avid reader of anything related to religion - including the sacred books as mentioned above - and anything related w/ human belief systems. And I'm very familiar w/ Dostoevsky (though in its French version, unfortunately).

I don't really have the resource and vocabulary to argue about religion in english, but in my native language, I assure you that I'm doing more than ok. ;)

Reece, first off I have to say I love you man. Always have done.

There's nobody on these forums now, or in the past, who's been more helpful to anyone here.

I also have a deep respect for you as a person. I may not share your beliefs, but I know you have never once even come close to even thinking about proselytising me, or anybody else for that matter. And I know you've never criticised me for my beliefs, or rather the lack of them.

I admit I've been a little outspoken now and again, and I can only say I'm sorry if that's caused hurt and offense to you. But I will say one thing though. I think I can almost guarantee that anything I've said regarding religion has never been a pre-emptive strike on my part. I may respond to something I consider to be inappropriate (or offensive to me), but I think even you'll agree that in the vast majority of times, it's someone else who 'starts it'. And I know for certain that I'm not the only person here (or rather 'not here' anymore) who honestly believes that these confrontations that revolve around religion are never started by the atheists and non-theists amongst us. There would be absolutely no reason whatsoever to do so.
 
But when someone comes out with something like "God Guts and Guns made America. Lets keep all three" that I personally find extremely offensive, I think I've got a right to respond. Maybe I was a little facetious in my remarks, and I apologise for that - it wasn't necessary. I guess I should really just report anything like this, but I'm afraid that's just not the way I do things.
 
I can't put my finger on what's sent this place downhill of late, but I do know that it doesn't have the same friendly feel it once enjoyed. These types of community will, of course, evolve naturally over time, but it shouldn't be a passive process. If the old place is heading that way, then we all have a choice whether we let it, or do something about it.