https://soundcloud.com/mooch4056/glyn-john-test

Miked using THe Glyn John Method. This is unprocessced EXCEPT... I put BOOST on the drum Bus for glue 


I know this method  been around forever But I just learned about it. It's new to me. SO I set up my drums and tried it. 

Last fall when Working on miking a drum set I got poor results tyrying to put a mic on everything.  This is much better, I am impressed.  

I used an mxl 990 on the overhead 40 inches about the center of the snare. I used an mxl v 67 40 inches from the right side of the snare as the second over head. 

I used the Kick mic that comes with the cad pro 7 pack on the kick 

and I used the snare Mike that comes with  cad pro  pack 



Glyn says he hardly  ever puts a mic on the snare. I did anyway. It works pretty well. 

I still have a little work to do on getting my toms a better sound but I think I am going to try this on some songs. 

Pleas comment on your thoughts and experience and what things i can do to my toms or anything else  such as padding or tape ect.. to get them to sound better 

 


Same test but I converted audio in snare and kick to midi and used the sounds in superior drums .. kick and snare are now doubled with country Kit  and I added reverb and elephant compression https://soundcloud.com/mooch4056/replace-kick-and-snare 

PS... I am not a drummer ... never mind the "performance" it was a sound check 

Good Lord! 

Hi Paul,

This isn't bad sounding at all. However, due to this mic tenchique, you're stuck with what (no offense brother) I call a decent sounding garage kit. When you don't use mics on individual drums, it makes them distant and the room comes too much into the scheme of things. Me personally, I no longer like much room in my drums. You don't have the control over them when they are roomy. They sound distant, mid rangey, and sort of...welll, in a sense, disconnected from the mix in my opinion.

All these guys that come up with these mic techniques where they cut out mics....or use mid-side stereo stuff....are all missing the boat in my opinion. I just don't like those sounds and think that though they sound natural, music in today's times is distinct and has an up front sound that will NOT be achieved by using less mic's or mid-side techniques.

Now, if you're not in the "today" camp of instrument mic'ing where things are more up front and controllable, I can't talk to you the way I've been talking to you. Keep in mind that I'm doing up close and personal type drums which allow us way more control. If I want more room to my drums, I can add more room either with my room mics or heck, a good old impulse.

See that's the cool thing about mic'ing each drum and getting an up close sound instead of a room sound. The up close and personal sound gives you so many options. The slightly distant sound pins you up against a wall because you will NEVER control the room ambience without removing more of the room. The more you remove the room, the more the drums sound bad because they don't have any mic's right on them to drive them. We can always add room to an up close and personal recording whether it be our room mics or an impulse. Impulses today are soo good in my opinion, I really can't tell the difference between them and a real room.

The way we process room sounds (even with impulses) makes them sound so realistic, it's almost crazy to allow a real room or a slightly distant mic technique to possibly ruin a drum recording. And let me tell you, the roomy stuff will do just that. I always go for up close and personal on the drums. I mic every drum at all times and even my ride cymbal because I like control over the bell.

I use a top and a bottom for my snare and 3 on my kick drum. One inside, one outside on an angle to get a little air-throw, one near the pedal to get a little beater attack on the outside. A mic on each tom. (either a 57 or a 421) Two over-heads, two distant over-heads and I call it a day.

Ok, now listening to your drum kit several times as I was typing this...the good thing here is, I think the drums themselves sound pretty good with the worst offenders being the cymbals. They just sort of lack good cymbal sound. Acceptable, most definitely. But they seem to have that inexpensive type tone.

Kick sounds healthy, snare would probably be cool if you cracked it a little harder with a little rim shot. It would sound better with a top and bottom rig too in my opinion so you have the best of both worlds. Toms are pretty cool. You could moon gel them a little to tighten them up.
 
The right compression and eq will definitely make this kit better. Over-all, the kit sounds good...just a bit too roomy for my personal taste. It sort of has that classic rock sound which is cool...it just sort of dates you when you use a drum tone like that. I just personally like snappier, tighter drums that sustain a bit, yet don't ring too much. There's a difference between ring and sustain as you'll find the more you do this.

But with some compression, maybe some gates controlling the ring, maybe a little verb on select instruments and a good eq curve, those drums might be presentable. But they still don't quite have that pro sound from the shells. They seem a little loose...this is where the more up close mic technique can help. It depends though Paul...everyone will have a different opinion on what a good drum sound is. I like when the drum kit fits the style of music. It's hard for me to judge anything when there is no music behind a kit...so depending on what you use those drums are would dictate what my true feelings would be. At any rate, good job man. :)

-Danny

Danny Danzi


Hi Paul,

This isn't bad sounding at all. However, due to this mic tenchique, you're stuck with what (no offense brother) I call a decent sounding garage kit. When you don't use mics on individual drums, it makes them distant and the room comes too much into the scheme of things. Me personally, I no longer like much room in my drums. You don't have the control over them when they are roomy. They sound distant, mid rangey, and sort of...welll, in a sense, disconnected from the mix in my opinion.

All these guys that come up with these mic techniques where they cut out mics....or use mid-side stereo stuff....are all missing the boat in my opinion. I just don't like those sounds and think that though they sound natural, music in today's times is distinct and has an up front sound that will NOT be achieved by using less mic's or mid-side techniques.

Now, if you're not in the "today" camp of instrument mic'ing where things are more up front and controllable, I can't talk to you the way I've been talking to you. Keep in mind that I'm doing up close and personal type drums which allow us way more control. If I want more room to my drums, I can add more room either with my room mics or heck, a good old impulse.

See that's the cool thing about mic'ing each drum and getting an up close sound instead of a room sound. The up close and personal sound gives you so many options. The slightly distant sound pins you up against a wall because you will NEVER control the room ambience without removing more of the room. The more you remove the room, the more the drums sound bad because they don't have any mic's right on them to drive them. We can always add room to an up close and personal recording whether it be our room mics or an impulse. Impulses today are soo good in my opinion, I really can't tell the difference between them and a real room.

The way we process room sounds (even with impulses) makes them sound so realistic, it's almost crazy to allow a real room or a slightly distant mic technique to possibly ruin a drum recording. And let me tell you, the roomy stuff will do just that. I always go for up close and personal on the drums. I mic every drum at all times and even my ride cymbal because I like control over the bell.

I use a top and a bottom for my snare and 3 on my kick drum. One inside, one outside on an angle to get a little air-throw, one near the pedal to get a little beater attack on the outside. A mic on each tom. (either a 57 or a 421) Two over-heads, two distant over-heads and I call it a day.

Ok, now listening to your drum kit several times as I was typing this...the good thing here is, I think the drums themselves sound pretty good with the worst offenders being the cymbals. They just sort of lack good cymbal sound. Acceptable, most definitely. But they seem to have that inexpensive type tone.

Kick sounds healthy, snare would probably be cool if you cracked it a little harder with a little rim shot. It would sound better with a top and bottom rig too in my opinion so you have the best of both worlds. Toms are pretty cool. You could moon gel them a little to tighten them up.
 
The right compression and eq will definitely make this kit better. Over-all, the kit sounds good...just a bit too roomy for my personal taste. It sort of has that classic rock sound which is cool...it just sort of dates you when you use a drum tone like that. I just personally like snappier, tighter drums that sustain a bit, yet don't ring too much. There's a difference between ring and sustain as you'll find the more you do this.

But with some compression, maybe some gates controlling the ring, maybe a little verb on select instruments and a good eq curve, those drums might be presentable. But they still don't quite have that pro sound from the shells. They seem a little loose...this is where the more up close mic technique can help. It depends though Paul...everyone will have a different opinion on what a good drum sound is. I like when the drum kit fits the style of music. It's hard for me to judge anything when there is no music behind a kit...so depending on what you use those drums are would dictate what my true feelings would be. At any rate, good job man. :)

-Danny

I agree with you 100 percent about using close mics on all the drums rather than room mics and the control you get.  When and if I ever get clients I would encourage them to play my Midi V drums triggered through Superior Drummer or BFD..... OR if I had a good room with the Senn 421 (? tom mics)  and those mics I cant afford right I am all for close mics on all the drums. 


But I was thinking the other day which got me to researching too. and I was thinking....


what if I had to record drums in my current state with the equipment I have all ready. I have pretty lousy mics. A fair drum kit with a set of 5 cymbals that cost $150 all together... hence your right on the cymbals being the weak link here. 


So I was watching video of people miking Gyn Johns way and I was impressed. So I gave  it a shot today and I was pretty surprised. 


You know I have a cad 7 pro kit .. 2 shure 58's .. An mxl 990 and an mlx V 67 

A blue spark Microphone - and A Blue Baby Bottle Mic .. the best mic I have it probably the Blue baby bottle

a few tech audios laying around too  

I also have a garage -- and a 24 channel snake and sonar x2 with a tascam us 1641 14 analog input with four out 

that's what I have to work with -- it'll never sound as good as what you could do or what any other pro like your self  could do for that matter -- So I Figured for now -- This may be it.. .. for now .. not forever 


For the yucks of it I pulled superior drummer - and converted the kick and snare drum that was on my "test" track to the nashville kit - snare and kick -- and are doubled now on that Glyn Johns Test you heard - The result was this .. https://soundcloud.com/mooch4056/replace-kick-and-snare

still needs work -- but I guess better - 


Hey ..  when Bob lays down my drum work and if were using a live set and you want my toms miked as well - no problem - just tell me what mike I have to put where and I'll record it. But I just might also have Glyn Johns way set up in addition to everything and we can  work on the mix together like we talked about - I am all for learning thats why I Emailed you - 

but .. I hope you get why I am exploring it I hope .. one - I don't know a lot about this method so I need to do it to learn it 

and two -- seems logical to give it a go being my budget and equipment is where it is at ...  and lets  not forget  an epic fail last fall trying to mic  a whole kit 


Paul 
 

What Glyn Johns neglected to mention is that he records drums in million-dollar purpose-built rooms that even a child's plastic tambourine would sound good in. For the rest of us, the less room in the mix the better.

Well, the entire industry is hybridding, so use that method if/when you have to. The toughest thing about talking people into using V-Drums is the feel and it depends what pads you have. The mesh heads are a little easier to swallow for drummers. But, nothing beats a goodl old fashioned kit to some guys. Me, I could care less really. I enjoy the V-Drums and think they feel great. I don't use the sounds in the brain at all, it's just my pad to midi interface really.

Here's a few things to keep in mind Paul...

If you are going to use these drums for blues, jazz and older country, that kit will work just as it is. See man, drum kits for those styles of music don't usually get processed to the point of where the room within the drums is controlled. Then again, in the case of SRV....his later stuff had some killer modern drum sounds that did NOT sound like that loose "drums in a room" sound. So for some things, you can get away with that kit just the way it is.

For pop, modern rock,metal, current modern country, some of the more fusion type things, this kit will not cut it without some processing or at least a different snare drum with processing. That distant type sound is what makes it lack. If you listen to any pro kit...heck go back to like the Doobie Bros if you want...you'll notice the kit is processed in a way to where it doesn't sound like a drum set in a room. They all have this pro *tight* sound, if you will...even the more classic rock kits. As much as I'm no longer down with the classic rock type sound, they have this thing that doesn't sound like that "cheap drums in a room" deal unless we go back into the 60's and listen to some of those kits.

So before you get too hard on yourself with this stuff, take a look at what type of kit you are trying to get. I think you got a good 60's type kit with the drums the way they are. With a little tightening and more mic's, you have the 70's nailed. You wouldn't want the 80's as that era (as much as it pains me since that was my favorite time...but for guitar sounds only lol) used too many unrealistic samples with loads of verb.

I think the late 90's to today are the best drum sounds for all styles of music to be honest. They just got it right in my opinion. Sure some of this is due to samples being used at the same time or whatever...but to me it's still a great drum sound and to me it doesn't matter how you get there...as long as you get there.

If you've ever heard the first Stone Temple Pilots album....great drum sound there. Living Color's first album...anything by Rush from Moving Pictures on....just about anything with Mike Portnoy former drummer of Dream Theater. The new Maragold album has a really nice, tight drum sound as well with one of the best female singers of all time...whew...if this chic isn't a legend in a few years, I give up! Check this out..

http://www.youtube.com/user/maragoldband?feature=watch

Best female voice alive right now in rock..so much so, I proposed to her. LOL! Told her if I can do a cover of this song (which I did lol I just haven't shared it with her yet) and impress her, she has to marry me. Hahaha! I did some work with the guitar player Greg Howe so I had the connection to talk to her. :)

Anyway...sorry, Meghan just blows my doors off and I get all exicted. LOL! But the drums in that are nice and tight and along the lines of the kits I mic up here and what others are using today. I'm also really liking some of the modern country stuff which of course is pretty much melodic rock these days with nice fat processed drum kits. So it depends what type of sound you are going for brother. There are definite uses for that kit just as it is and you're getting a sound that is nothing to be embarrassed about for sure. With a little more work you'll get it even tighter. At least the drums themselves have a pretty good sound. The cymbals...yeah, a bit weak there but hey, at least you have a drum kit and the cymbals don't sound too bad. You just low pass them to keep them from being harsh and then sculpt up the middle to add or take away the mids if you see fit. High pass them nice and tight and you'll make them work.

That's another cool thing Paul...and that is, this kit is making you work and experiment. That to me is the best way to learn this stuff. You can go to a school and use their gear and their mics...it means nothing when you are in the field with your own stuff or someone elses. You will learn so much this way...when you get a new kit or whatever some day, you'll laugh when you see how easy it is to get a good sound out of it. But...what you're doing now will pave the way to what you do then.

I have a set of hihats here that sound like absolute dog crap. Some dude gave them to me. I took them rather than throwing them out as you never know when you may need something in this business. Well, they sounded so bad, I was going to throw them out. But one day I needed them for something....and the unexplainable happened. I don't know how or why or what the deal is, but these freakin' things come to life when you mic them. As God is my witness Paull, they barely even sound like hats when you listen to them in real life. But mic'd up...they literally sound like a high end hat. I started using them just to see how I'd do with them. I can't tell you how many compliments I got on the hats. Most people say "ah, sounds like a hat" where others really listen and comment. When you mic something right, eq it right and do all the right things...you can just about make anything sound acceptable really. The problem with this method is you often times spend too much time making something sound good where if you had a good piece of gear, it doesn't take that amount of time.

Anyway...keep at it...it's definitely an acceptable drum sound in my opinion, the genres is which you use the drums on may be the only issue. :)

-Danny

bitflipper


What Glyn Johns neglected to mention is that he records drums in million-dollar purpose-built rooms that even a child's plastic tambourine would sound good in. For the rest of us, the less room in the mix the better.

+1000 and another reason why I never buy into techniques, lessons or books by said individuals. They are never in a position to live like common folks to give us the right information that would benefit us. Thus, why I started teaching recording lessons via video to teach people on the gear that they use.
 
-Danny

A while back a friend of mine pulled a metal snare drum with no brand name out of a garbage can on the street.  He brought it to me and asked if it was any good.  I put new heads on it and I was amazed at the sound.  It was fantastic.  It had this sharp crack, full tone and just a hint of ring.  It could cut through the mix like a hot knife through butter.  For quite some time, it was my favorite snare drum.

You just never know until you try.

I am the only one who likes my Glyn Johns set up.  (I am crying)


I just learned about it yesterday. Didn't even know that it existed. This is the first time I ever recorded drums and it sounded "decent" You can understand my excitement in that context. 


So sure for now Ill keep experimenting. But I know me. I'll start swapping out the bad tom sounds and changing the audio to midi from my sounds in Superior Drummer  Someone is going to here  to help me with the patient part of finding the right mic placement and Eq'ing and compressing the right ratios, attacks, thresholds ect ... 

Don't swap right away Paul, try to get the acoustic to sound the way you want it first :)