trimph1


@Danny...

Question for you. I have been considering using an acoustic set of drums but not sure of which ones to look into...you have some favorite ones? 

BTW...I've been keeping some of your posts in here...need more time to go through them!! LOL!!


edit...love missing keypads...grrrrr

Hi trimph,
 
Well, anything you can afford would be a good start just so you can get your feet wet. Personally, though it pains me to say this, I'm really liking V Drums more and more. I guess because I can have so many different sounds and the playing is still realistic enough for me to enjoy playing drums. They've really come a long way in the way they work now and I just really enjoy them.
 
But for acoustic drums, it all depends what your use will be bro. For recording, you want to spend some bucks on a kit because with drums, you honestly get what you pay for in the studio. Seriously...it makes a huge difference. Pearl, Yamaha, DW, heck, even Rogers....I've always liked Rogers myself. But like I say, if you're just going to bang around and learn, get something you can affrord. Just don't expect anything too great if you try and record them. :)
 
-Danny

That was an awesome break down Danny, thanks.

And for my next trick, I will eat a percussion instrument in a bap...
 


Drum roll, please.

I used to think that too myself Danny until my son got me into this stuff and not only that he showed me and I can hear it big time. Same stick, same drum, two players:

Stick holding point. The position of the fulcrum in relation to the stick. The grip at this fulcrum point. Tight or looser. The shape of the hand around the fulcrum. This effects tone of the drum hit. (this can be very obvious on cymbals)

The energy behind the stick stroke. Finger control or wrist or arm movement. All add varying degrees of power behind the stroke. Major differences here!

The way the stick bounces off the head.

Kick pedal. Heel down or heel up. Leaving the beater buried in the head or let it bounce off. (Major sonic differences here) Weight behind the kick. Just using the foot, leg weight behind, body weight behind. Kick tone gets effected here.

These are all very complex aspects to drumming and this is the sort of stuff Jazz players get taught. (Many) Rock drummers are oblivious to this sort of stuff. With respect Danny you are a very fine guitarist first and foremost (and a very decent drummer too!) but you are not in the league of players like my son for example who has mastered amazing amounts of technique control in the areas I have mentioned above. Drumming is more than just time. It takes a long time to master this sort of stuff well. Technique would be a good word to describe it I suppose.

Here is an interesting article that relates technique to drum sound:

http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/drum_sound.html

The playing the groove the feel, the sense of groove all come out and it's a bit like Frank with his guitars. The sound of a great drummer just seems to ring through for some reason and just over power any kit. The actual playing can override the drum sound to a certain extent. I for one sound like me no matter what kit I play. There is something hard to pinpoint that, just moves with the drummer onto any drum kit. Kenny Clare showed me that in that drum workshop. Gadd would sound great and the drums would sound great no matter what drums he plays.

When masterful drummers encounter a bad sounding head or drum they seem to know what to do or how to extract a better sound out of it.

But yes I also agree that drums are one of those instruments that have many variables and they too all effect the sound. I think a good compromise might be it is a combination of both. The drums themselves and technique. 

Here is a good article I stumbled across regarding tuning more so than technique.

http://www.drummingweb.com/tuning.htm 

Another good drum tuning article:

http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/drum_tuning.html

Sound on Sound has also produced some great stuff on drum tuning.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug10/articles/drum-tuning.htm

Which is better: tune your snare bottom tight or loose?

tight 

The bottom snare head is usually tight. It is a different sort of head if you look. It is quite thin and can be tuned tight without issue. I usually tap it with my finger after tuning it while muffling the top head (snares off) then I listen for this sort of high pitched ring or note.

The tightness of the bottom head contributes to the snap in a way of the snare sound. Nothing to stop you from tuning it loose but it often starts to sound pretty bad when you do that. You can still keep the bottom head tight and loosen the top head for wide sound variations.

Wrong thread...

Let's also not forget stick selection too. A pair of 2B stick smashing your toms is going to sound different than some 7A sticks. Even nylon vs. wood tip makes a noticeable difference in cymbal articulation.

I experimented with the hard vs. soft cymbal thing tonight. I can't honestly say that the effect on the toms was all that noticeable. It mostly sounded like the cymbals were more mute. They make quite a different sound. The explosion in the attack isn't the same at all. 

Going back to the music, I think it matters on what your song calls for for the cymbal strike. If you're doing a big intro crash with a wall of guitars, a strong strike is going to make the best explosive sound (think Metallica Sad but True or the beginning of Tom Sawyer). But, cymbals in space by themselves accenting the song without the dramatic need for the explosion call for less attack. So, IMHO it's a play the cymbals how they're needed thing.

Drum-wise, I gotta hang with Danny. There's a reason the high-end kits are the high-end kits. I've now had cheap and a pro-quality kit, and there is absolutely no comparison, especially for recording. You don't notice so much playing gigs in bars, but when you mix them......night and day. I know it sucks, but it's true. There are some good drums out there that aren't over priced. I played with a guy who has the Gretsch Catalina wrapped kit, and it sounds pretty killer, but I haven't recorded it.

Last, as far as raising the levels of the drums without having the cymbals drown things out: using a high-pass on the overheads and EQ-ing appropriately while close-micing the toms allows the two (toms vs. cymbals) to be mixed independently of each other.

Fun thread. Thanks for starting it!

tfbattag



Fun thread. Thanks for starting it!

Welcome. People tell me I am a pretty fun guy. That's probably why I start fun threads. ;)