Jeff Evans
I used to think that too myself Danny until my son got me into this stuff and not only that he showed me and I can hear it big time. Same stick, same drum, two players:
Stick holding point. The position of the fulcrum in relation to the stick. The grip at this fulcrum point. Tight or looser. The shape of the hand around the fulcrum. This effects tone of the drum hit. (this can be very obvious on cymbals)
The energy behind the stick stroke. Finger control or wrist or arm movement. All add varying degrees of power behind the stroke. Major differences here!
The way the stick bounces off the head.
Kick pedal. Heel down or heel up. Leaving the beater buried in the head or let it bounce off. (Major sonic differences here) Weight behind the kick. Just using the foot, leg weight behind, body weight behind. Kick tone gets effected here.
These are all very complex aspects to drumming and this is the sort of stuff Jazz players get taught. (Many) Rock drummers are oblivious to this sort of stuff. With respect Danny you are a very fine guitarist first and foremost (and a very decent drummer too!) but you are not in the league of players like my son for example who has mastered amazing amounts of technique control in the areas I have mentioned above. Drumming is more than just time. It takes a long time to master this sort of stuff well. Technique would be a good word to describe it I suppose.
Here is an interesting article that relates technique to drum sound:
http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/drum_sound.html
The playing the groove the feel, the sense of groove all come out and it's a bit like Frank with his guitars. The sound of a great drummer just seems to ring through for some reason and just over power any kit. The actual playing can override the drum sound to a certain extent. I for one sound like me no matter what kit I play. There is something hard to pinpoint that, just moves with the drummer onto any drum kit. Kenny Clare showed me that in that drum workshop. Gadd would sound great and the drums would sound great no matter what drums he plays.
When masterful drummers encounter a bad sounding head or drum they seem to know what to do or how to extract a better sound out of it.
But yes I also agree that drums are one of those instruments that have many variables and they too all effect the sound. I think a good compromise might be it is a combination of both. The drums themselves and technique.
Here is a good article I stumbled across regarding tuning more so than technique.
http://www.drummingweb.com/tuning.htm
Another good drum tuning article:
http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/drum_tuning.html
Sound on Sound has also produced some great stuff on drum tuning.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug10/articles/drum-tuning.htm
You may be misunderstanding me Jeff. The discussion started about hitting cymbals lighter adding to a huge drum sound. This lead to Paul mentioning that he is having a problem getting a good drum sound, has a darker wood, beat heads and a kit that probably will be a bit of a challenge to make sound good at $750.00. When he mentioned what he had, I told him why he may have been having problems with the sound along with a few things to try that may help him.
I'm not disputing any of what you said in your above post. I'm merely saying a cheaper kit is not going to sound good no matter who plays it. Not the playing, the SOUND of the actual drums. And, it WILL be harder to get a good sound out of that kit when compared to a really good kit that may be more geared for recording due to price, build, or choice wood. Honest I'm well aware of the elements and techniques that go on in drumming. I played drums before guitar and started when I was 4. Though I am primarily a rock player due to personal preference, I can and have played various styles including jazz. I think 42 years of serious playing makes me a few notches above clueless. :)
Your son being better than me or being a jazz player isn't what we're talking about here. I only mentioned my own playing due to feeling my ability is good enough to be able to show enough technique and finesse to make a good drum kit maintain good sound. I also feel my abilities are good enough to where my playing would not be the reason a drum kit sounded bad.
That's all I've been trying to say in this thread. Now take me off the kit and put a great drummer on a kit that's under $800 and record it...it STILL will not stand up to a kit that is 4k and above. You get what you pay for with drums and it's rare (if at all) that a kit for under $800 will be used on a pro record. It's not even worth it for anyone to sit and waste time mic'ing up a cheap drum kit hoping for anything other than *maybe* mediocre.
That's really been my experience other than in the case of an anomaly here and there. A cheaper kit (though good for practice and mic testing) is a nightmare if you are going to really try and make it sound great on a recording. You don't find that out until you mic up a $3000 - $8000 drum set and hear the difference. It's so much easier and the drums just sound wonderful with little to no tweaking. We could put my sister on them and still record good sound fidelity....and I don't even have a sister.
Would a masterful drummer even be mic'ing up a kit under $800 for a recording? Probably not and we know why. Paul can be the best player in the world....it won't make those particular drums in their current state any easier to record. Whatever the case, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
In my opinion, no technique can save drums that just do not print well. Sure you can make a few adjustments to your playing execution, but a bad sounding kit will still be there. Sure there are some decent cheaper drum sets out there that get good sound...but I sure haven't heard too many. Unless they are a GOOD used set that someone is getting rid of at a bargain price, an anomaly, or the person is in need of money and must sell, rest assured you're going to be stuck with garbage cans for a drum sound. Feel free to literally prove me wrong if need be. I don't mind learning from you or anyone else. I'm just speaking from personal experience, not trying to be bull-headed or confrontational. :)
-Danny