• SONAR
  • What Would Make DAWs (Not Just SONAR) Easier to Use? (p.5)
2017/06/09 03:08:53
RedSkyRoad
Easy access to automation of vst controls.  In Ableton, if you click on the vst's button you want to automate, the automation curve is automatically selected, ready for editing.  This pull-down menu system of SONAR is laborious!!!!
2017/06/09 04:25:37
fantini
I love the learning curves as long as no one defines how quick I should learn.  I buy a DAW I can grow with. What all DAW's are missing is High Amperage. Super current.....Super stability.
2017/06/09 10:03:59
SGodfrey
I loved home music production for many, many years but wasn't able to get past the learning curve.  When Project 5 came along I was finally able to get on the ladder and start creating because it was much more user-friendly.  I thought it would be straightforward to upgrade from Project 5 to Sonar (Sonar v6 - v8.5), but I couldn't do it; I was always stopped by things that seemed simple to me like adding a track, but in practice were more complicated.  I remember thinking "this is so silly, why is this difficult? It makes no logical sense" and then I'd lose all impetus and all creativity.
What changed?
Sonar X1 - I found the user interface to be much easier to understand but MOST IMPORTANTLY, there were videos and webinars that accompanied the release, especially the ones done by Brandon and Seth.  They were the key to allowing me to make the leap and these days, my understanding is SO far beyond what it was back then.  The webinars were the greatest help to me, because they were going through building "whole" tracks and with this approach there were so many tricks, tips and things to learn along the way.
In conclusion:-
  1. Music production and DAWs are a complex subject, however ...
  2. Never forget the difference a user friendly interface can make
  3. Not everyone wants to read the manual.  Tutorials and webinars are key.
A final note - I'm actually a bit worried about Sonar at the moment.  Not the software or the development - that's fantastic!  It's the presence of Sonar on the internet - it has such a small profile, people haven't heard of it.  In my opinion, the top DAWs are Cubase, Sonar, Ableton and Logic and the latter is mainly there because it's scooped up the mac users (let's not get into the "which is best" debate, but obviously it's Sonar).  You will find a ton of YouTube tutorials for Ableton, Logic and Cubase, but very little for Sonar and a lot of the Sonar stuff is aging.  
I am currently finding that I'm falling behind with Sonar.  Every month, new stuff is introduced (which is great), but I'm not learning it.  Admittedly, I've become a Maschine user and for me, it's a huge creativity boost, but I still transfer over to Sonar at some point and I love Sonar.  However, I'm really looking for a few webinars (Brandon/Seth style).  Go though a whole track making process and along the way, use a whole heap of the new tools and techniques.  For me, this is the missing link!
Similarly for the new users, a review of the video tutorials is overdue.  Rather than have a mishmash of various videos done over many years, design a tutorial series from scratch.  What would be the ideal series for users to progress?
2017/06/09 11:32:42
lfm
Look at how video editors do it and steal some.
 
Very distinct choices what you want to work on right now and gui changes to support just that.
Been working in Premiere elements, Nero Video and PowerDirector - and PD is favourite still.
 
When having multiple camers - open Multi Camera room.
When you work at transitions you open Transition room and upper gui changes to support that.
When you want an effect on a clip - Effect room opens.
Set chapters - Chapter room
and so on.
 
So highly customizable operations like these, so you can create your own workflow completely.
So some major states - Tracking, Mixing, Rendering - then subcategories on these that you create your own as needed.
 
This means a toolbar customized for each subcategory, and now gui area is used like how many tracks.
Maybe you want to work with foundation of drums, bass and pads into one - and select which tracks belong to that - and not exclusive, some tracks may be used in several subcats.
Vocals might be another subcat.
 
For daws subcategory Tracking/Recording  and Mixing this might be:
a) tracking - maybe make a couple of those as you found needed, do you record full sessions on many tracks or just one at a time and so on. It's bound to be different for every person.
b) mixing - this might be different things to quickly get access to automation and such. Group tracks as needed to have them right in place for you switch to a certain subcategory.
 
Clever things already in other daws:
Preset list of time ranges save - both Samp, ProTools and Cubase has cycle markers kind of idea.
Cubase has ability to 10 marker tracks, where one is active at a time. Meaning you can have set positions prepared for recording, not needed general use of preroll - you decide where each section is for a section. so I use one marker track for recording positions for the project. Another for vocals to quickly jump between positions for vocals only.
Reaper has folder tracks which include a bus, which is also visible in mixer to expand/collapse as needed.
Cubase and ProTools has separate automation curves for absolute and relative which can be frozen into absolute as needed - and works for any track as well as VCA fader groups.
ProTools has really neat display of delay compensation in mixer like this:
This makes you feel in control.
 

2017/06/09 13:21:42
Majic
Pro Tips

"Dumbing down" creative tools actually makes it harder to do what you want. Give me nothing but a 3-inch-wide flat brush and a can of black paint, and I'm not going to give you a Renoir.

The best DAWs offer the best flexibility. That's going to necessarily be complicated. Structuring menus sensibly can help, as can offering "basic" and "advanced" modes, if done right.

In my experience, the most helpful thing that makes DAWs easier to use is current, concise and cogent online help and tool tips.

Doing that right can be a hassle, but answering quick user questions quickly, with easy-to-use pathways leading to deeper answers for deeper questions, delivers the biggest bang for the buck, in my opinion.
2017/06/09 13:31:29
konradh
Mine is pretty simplistic: Clarify Help.
 
Sonar is famous for saying things like, "Click on the wombat tool" without any indication where one might find it, or what it might look like. I then waste hours trying to find the mythical tool or icon.
 
This is a three week job for an intern.
2017/06/09 18:58:26
interpolated
I find that some of the changes aren't documented and I have to figure out or remember where something is through the plethora of main and context menus. However you don't expect everything to be that easy from a kick off.
 
2017/06/09 19:28:26
jimfogle
fantini
I love the learning curves as long as no one defines how quick I should learn.  I buy a DAW I can grow with. What all DAW's are missing is High Amperage. Super current.....Super stability.


Agree about stability.  Lots of crash and burns anytime a user first starts learning any software.  As long as software is crash resistant, stable and doesn't sink the boat (blue screen the PC) then users can learn from mistakes.  Once a mistake cracks Humpty Dumpty's shell the user won't trust the system or software.
2017/06/09 19:43:58
dcumpian
I used to think that if experienced engineers just shared their knowledge, I could finally learn how to properly mix. It took me a long time to realize that, in many cases, there is no way to pass that experience and ability to listen to someone who doesn't know what I'm talking about. You can always make computers, and by extension, DAW's easier to setup and use. You'll never be able to impart knowledge that the user isn't ready to understand.
 
As a longtime Cakewalk customer, setup is probably the most difficult thing to get right, and since a new user is going to run into that hurdle on the very first day, I would recommend finding a way to streamline the setup process that gets you to a stable platform as a starting point, including using proper default settings and warning about possible system issues that might impact performance and stability.
 
Dan
2017/06/09 20:06:07
abacab
lfm
Look at how video editors do it and steal some.
 
Very distinct choices what you want to work on right now and gui changes to support just that.
Been working in Premiere elements, Nero Video and PowerDirector - and PD is favourite still.
 
When having multiple camers - open Multi Camera room.
When you work at transitions you open Transition room and upper gui changes to support that.
When you want an effect on a clip - Effect room opens.
Set chapters - Chapter room
and so on.
 
So highly customizable operations like these, so you can create your own workflow completely.
So some major states - Tracking, Mixing, Rendering - then subcategories on these that you create your own as needed.
 
This means a toolbar customized for each subcategory, and now gui area is used like how many tracks.
Maybe you want to work with foundation of drums, bass and pads into one - and select which tracks belong to that - and not exclusive, some tracks may be used in several subcats.
Vocals might be another subcat.
 
For daws subcategory Tracking/Recording  and Mixing this might be:
a) tracking - maybe make a couple of those as you found needed, do you record full sessions on many tracks or just one at a time and so on. It's bound to be different for every person.
b) mixing - this might be different things to quickly get access to automation and such. Group tracks as needed to have them right in place for you switch to a certain subcategory.
 



I think those are some good suggestions!
 
Since you didn't mention "Lenses", which appeared in recent versions of Sonar, you may not have tried them yet.  They alter the workspace by showing/hiding UI elements to optimize for a specific workflow.  Defaults in Platinum are Advanced, Basic, Make Beats, Mix, Record.  https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Lenses.1.html
 
I think Lenses may be a first good step in this direction, but IMO it is not yet a complete solution.  I think that not only should the GUI adapt to your intended workflow, but maybe the DAW behavior as well could adapt.
 
There are probably many ways that this could be implemented, in layers, but the result could appear to be several DAWs in one, while leveraging the same core DAW under the hood.
 
Maybe a front-end for on-boarding new users could be added.  And after an initial install, you could click on "I'm an expert" and never see any of this sillyness again! 
 
But for the new user, maybe a little hand holding would be in order ...
 
First maybe begin with a prompt, "Would you like to view a few getting started tutorials to (a) setup your audio or MIDI gear?  (b) record an instrument?  (c) record a vocal? (d) play a soft synth? (e) make beats? (f) etc.
 
Then load a Lens and project template to accompany the chosen tutorial that has only the essential UI elements necessary for the task.  All track assignments and settings could also be made automatically for a simple demo project.
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