Bristol_Jonesey


What's the moral difference - if any - between a regular member posting on the SOFTWARE forum about a great deal on Amplitude over at IK multimedia, or OBI providing a heads up?

r is that the purpose of the X1 & Producer & Studio forums? If so, what is this forum for?

The difference, and it is quite large, is he is paid by a company to come here and do this. If you or any other forum member want to post regarding a great deal on IK or any other manufacturers software, you don't have a vested interest. And are welcome to do so. Heck I've seen many, many members tout Reaper which is in direct competition with Cakewalk and not be censored. When a regular forum member (non-employee) gives a heads-up on a deal, that poster is not being compensated. In the older days of this forum, members went out of their way to make sure it was understood that they had no affiliation with the company of the product they were posting about.

I can assure you however, in spite of everyone believing Obi's just a good ol' boy who wants to help, he is here to line his pockets.

I can't run it down in any more simple terms than that. 

Jonbouy

Beagle



directly to Obi:  I do enjoy you being on these boards.  I do appreciate your help and insight on IK products.  but I personally do not think you are following the TOS when you create threads like this one.  that's just my opinion and my opinion really doesn't matter since I'm not a moderator.

I'd also add that I'm not a moderator either, and just because moderators have not intervened here, probably because they have better things to do, it doesn't absolve the responsibility of a grown adult to abide by the terms he signed up for.  I've crossed the line here more than once and have taken the consequences of doing that on the chin when it has happened. 

I do agree.  I remember not long ago a moderator was very upset in the CH over the way a thread had gone bad with people attacking each other and when he came in he specifically stated that absence of moderation does not mean that the moderators agree with what's going on.  it simply means they're too busy doing other things to babysit.

Bristol_Jonesey

pdlstl


I have a MOTU 896HD in very nice shape for sale. I'm asking $325 and buyer pays shipping and insurance. PM me. Pictures upon request. Works well with SONAR.

Apart from being a bloody killjoy - this is the software forum, so

Killjoy?  I'd have thought you'd be able to get irony...

Jonbouy

I'd also add that I'm not a moderator either, and just because moderators have not intervened here, probably because they have better things to do, it doesn't absolve the responsibility of a grown adult to abide by the terms he signed up for.  I've crossed the line here more than once and have taken the consequences of doing that on the chin when it has happened.

No Advertising isn't a messy double standard it simply means No Advertising.

I would like to add to what Jon said regarding the responsibility of members to abide by the rules we ALL agree to when we join this forum. In addition, I feel, as a member of one of the "cleanest" forums I belong to, I have a responsibility to report and comment on an issue when it goes directly against said rules and policies.

So if that makes me a "ToS Nazi", these shoulders are broad and can bear the burden.
 
Earl

Jonbouy

Bristol_Jonesey

pdlstl


I have a MOTU 896HD in very nice shape for sale. I'm asking $325 and buyer pays shipping and insurance. PM me. Pictures upon request. Works well with SONAR.

Apart from being a bloody killjoy - this is the software forum, so

Killjoy?  I'd have thought you'd be able to get irony...

The loose definition of spam is mainly that it is advertising done in an annoying and repetitive way. Like spambots or something similar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_spam

 If you include advertising in general then Obi falls into that category, but IMO this isn't the general use or meaning of spam per se. I'm not exactly sure how Cakewalk defines spam or if they would classify what Obi does as being high pressure advertising. Personally I think it is advertising but not spamming. I guess the call is up to Cakewalk to decide.

 The fact that Obi has been so honest in telling us that he works for IK is what has rankled a few here. I appreciate his honesty and I don't feel particularly "spammed".

 Ask yourself this- If you are a music dude looking at buying some software for your studio which of the following would you prefer?
A website with no human interaction or a weblink for you to click.
A phone number with a robot at the other end.
A company rep who shows up on your forum and in a very unassuming way tells everyone there is a deal or a new product out.He also tries to answer questions or point you to someone in the company who can help.

 Which of these do you prefer?

 Is Obi spamming the forum ?IMO no. Is he advertising? Yes. Is this a breach of the TOS according to Cakewalk? That's their call to make based on their own interpretation of what they consider to be advertising.

 The whole idea behind the anti-advertising statement in the TOS I'm guessing is to avoid those annoying company emails that completely disrupt  the subjects being discussed. In this case the subject is audio software and Obi works for one of the top audio software companies and he is  the know on new developements.

 The funny thing is that if Obi would have been less than honest and signed on as a regular here he could advertise all day long and no questions would be asked. His honesty here is working against him with a few people. Technically he could eliminate his original info and sign on as Obi just an average poster and be free from scrutiny.(well not really) because we know now.  How many other reps do you think come on the software thread and tell us about new products? 

 

Starise


The loose definition of spam is mainly that it is advertising done in an annoying and repetitive way. Like spambots or something similar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_spam

 If you include advertising in general then Obi falls into that category, but IMO this isn't the general use or meaning of spam per se. I'm not exactly sure how Cakewalk defines spam or if they would classify what Obi does as being high pressure advertising. Personally I think it is advertising but not spamming. I guess the call is up to Cakewalk to decide.

 The fact that Obi has been so honest in telling us that he works for IK is what has rankled a few here. I appreciate his honesty and I don't feel particularly "spammed".

 Ask yourself this- If you are a music dude looking at buying some software for your studio which of the following would you prefer?
A website with no human interaction or a weblink for you to click.
A phone number with a robot at the other end.
A company rep who shows up on your forum and in a very unassuming way tells everyone there is a deal or a new product out.He also tries to answer questions or point you to someone in the company who can help.

 Which of these do you prefer?

 Is Obi spamming the forum ?IMO no. Is he advertising? Yes. Is this a breach of the TOS according to Cakewalk? That's their call to make based on their own interpretation of what they consider to be advertising.

 The whole idea behind the anti-advertising statement in the TOS I'm guessing is to avoid those annoying company emails that completely disrupt  the subjects being discussed. In this case the subject is audio software and Obi works for one of the top audio software companies and he is  the know on new developements.

 The funny thing is that if Obi would have been less than honest and signed on as a regular here he could advertise all day long and no questions would be asked. His honesty here is working against him with a few people. Technically he could eliminate his original info and sign on as Obi just an average poster and be free from scrutiny.(well not really) because we know now.  How many other reps do you think come on the software thread and tell us about new products? 

 

Well said.

Please read the TOS.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tos.aspx

There are 2 entries regarding "advertising" - one is entitled "SPAM" the other is entitled "ADVERTISING" 

both are against the TOS.

I cannot understand how anyone could interpret the OP of this thread to be anything other than "advertising" which does fall under the TOS as being "not allowed."

Beagle


Please read the TOS.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tos.aspx

There are 2 entries regarding "advertising" - one is entitled "SPAM" the other is entitled "ADVERTISING" 

both are against the TOS.

I cannot understand how anyone could interpret the OP of this thread to be anything other than "advertising" which does fall under the TOS as being "not allowed."

Have you ever gone over the speed limit?  It's clearly against the law and yet I'll bet you've done it.  In fact I'll bet you go the speed that the the majority of other drivers are going and that the police ignore even if it is over the limit.  Oh the horror!

It is against the TOS - like many, many, many of us on these forums violate the TOS on an almost hourly basis. 

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable even bringing the TOS into the conversation.

Maybe what people have a problem w/ is that Obi is PAID to post here. That's the only difference between his posts and mine, Ol Pal's or Carl's or whoever when we post a heads up's. Obi's post may be a bit more elaborate, but essentially, they're the same. And lets face it - those heads up account for a majority of the posts made in the software forum. 

For ME, as long as the product can be interesting for Cakewalk users and only brings additional functionality to Sonar, I really don't mind whether it's Obi or Bapu who posts about it. Advertising competition, now that's a different thing. 

I mean, I do come here to be informed about such promos and all. It's not like he's filling my inbox w/ junk. Is it so bad that he is PAID for it? Don't we all need to earn a living?

The kind of posts I do consider as spam is those "how to convert this and that" which obviously have nothing to do here on a music software forum and which are just shot randomly everywhere and anywhere on the web by a guy w/ a post count of one whom we'll never see again. 

Unlike those guys, Obi follows up (and he's quite quick at getting back w/ an answer when you pm him).

I'm not gonna change anyone's mind about this, and every one's entitled to their opinion. 

But these are my 2 cents.