2012/07/30 05:07:21
Jonbouy
Rain I don't make these statements on a specific personal level EVER!

I talk generally of the priciples involved.  However, if the cap fits and all that.

The challenge/response mechanism that Cakewalk employs is a large reason behind my use of Cakewalk products.  It means I'm not screwed if I change machines or never upgrade my hardware again in future.

It's a choice I make, and it's a big reason why I'm here and not on some other DAW vendors site.

Sharp practice from software vendors, spamming the forums with marketing etc,etc,etc?  What's the origin of what you are calling negativity that emanates from me in particular? Where better to discuss these issues than the software forum?  It's a completely relavent topic and an important one too considering the increasingly aggressive methods being employed by vendors.

Your post was highlighted because it presents a common attitude, you'll notice I referred to it's argument as 'It' nowhere did I refer to 'You' personally.  Buying a piece of software doesn't imply anywhere that you'll need to update it at some point unless the seller is making that specific claim at the point of sale.  Yes, I acknowledge you've also stated yourself it's not acceptable so do you just continue to comply or what?  Sure you're the only one that can make the choice of what you decide to pay for, my point is that when people don't think when they purchase then it makes it easier for the rest of us to be 'screwed agan'.

I'd much rather you'd base your view on what was actually being said rather than a feeling you may have created for yourself about the person presenting it.  That doesn't always happen here though, because that's the internet I guess, I've got resigned to the fact that is just how it is.  It's not likely to stop me chiming in on an issue that I consider worthy of commenting on though.
2012/07/30 14:30:24
aj
Cakewalk certainly have the most hassle-free licensing option. Native Instruments appear to continue to support registration transfers even for old products since I have the original Kompakt sample player and was able to transfer that to a new machine not so long ago. All your NI purchases (or NI-powered products like GPO) are managed fairly painlessly via their 'service centre' app. As for the other vendors with protected software that I currently have installed:- The vendor of RealStrat (marvellous product, may I say), provides a fixed serial number like Cakewalk so no problem there with transfers Reaper - I think from memory again there's a fixed serial number provided so not anticipating any long term support problem Toontrack - the other vendor for which I have licensed software - is a potential problem. After three transfers it's up to their discretion whether they'll allow any more (which means if I change my current machine I may have to beg them for the privilege of transferring the software I paid for) But the Waves policy of refusing future activations seems entirely out of line. I guess the best we can do is to boycott vendors with these kind of attitudes until they get the message.
2012/07/30 22:41:47
JohnKenn
Jon, Rain, Bigdogs, Aj, 
 
Hope you guys are well and didn’t mean to start a war among brothers in arms warriors. 
 
My limited perspective, you guys nailed the issues and validated my rant. 
 
Helped out an engineering guy on some stuff a long time ago and he wanted to repay me. Got daily links to software cracks. One of the earliest Cakewalk programs was my first illegal program.
 
 
Hard on thrills as I accumulated Cakewalk, Sony, other programs without paying a penny for any of them.
 
 
Fortunately not a Christian, so heathen morality started to inflict pain any time an unpaid program was opened.
 
 
My cyber closet is not entirely clean. Got some mp3’s that I have not bought the CD for. Twisted morality is that if I can’t afford or justify buying a program, got to do without. Company calls the shots.
 
 
Out of the closet, except for scattered mp3’s, all software is paid for and moral.
 
 
Pains me about 25% to have to resort to cracks and keygens.
 
 
Lost over a hundred bucks on Voyetra Midi Producer and Record Producer. They posted that they were trying to protect me from data loss if new OS systems came about, so were aborting further activation for my own good. Bloody bastards. Haven’t found a crack for this and will let it go the way of the world.
 
 
Don’t know how many of us were burned with the Khajerus golden series plugs.
 
 
Different dynamic but equally punishing for the end user.
 
 
Anyone stranded with this ripoff, search for the golden suite and cracks are available. These plugs are still good and useful. Easy to counterattack the screw job they did on you.
 
 
Respect Cakewalk, respect Reaper, respect Ken at AcmeBarGig, fine companies like Klanghelm and his fine fine comperessor. Dude saw that extra copy protection related to code excessive bloat that would have to be billed to the end user, had no ultimate protection advantage.
 
 
]http://klanghelm.com/DC8C.html 
 
Dynamte compressor by the way. Got a free and shareware version. Guys like this we got to support. High road ethic and quality to match the ethic.
 
John

 
any way to fix posts so we don't have to edit to remove pixel/font debris??...

2012/07/30 23:51:44
Rain
Jonbouy


Rain I don't make these statements on a specific personal level EVER!

I talk generally of the priciples involved.  However, if the cap fits and all that.

The challenge/response mechanism that Cakewalk employs is a large reason behind my use of Cakewalk products.  It means I'm not screwed if I change machines or never upgrade my hardware again in future.

It's a choice I make, and it's a big reason why I'm here and not on some other DAW vendors site.

Sharp practice from software vendors, spamming the forums with marketing etc,etc,etc?  What's the origin of what you are calling negativity that emanates from me in particular? Where better to discuss these issues than the software forum?  It's a completely relavent topic and an important one too considering the increasingly aggressive methods being employed by vendors.

Your post was highlighted because it presents a common attitude, you'll notice I referred to it's argument as 'It' nowhere did I refer to 'You' personally.  Buying a piece of software doesn't imply anywhere that you'll need to update it at some point unless the seller is making that specific claim at the point of sale.  Yes, I acknowledge you've also stated yourself it's not acceptable so do you just continue to comply or what?  Sure you're the only one that can make the choice of what you decide to pay for, my point is that when people don't think when they purchase then it makes it easier for the rest of us to be 'screwed agan'.

I'd much rather you'd base your view on what was actually being said rather than a feeling you may have created for yourself about the person presenting it.  That doesn't always happen here though, because that's the internet I guess, I've got resigned to the fact that is just how it is.  It's not likely to stop me chiming in on an issue that I consider worthy of commenting on though.



Good to know as I'd hate to feel uncomfortable around another forum member and you probably know that I do appreciate your presence on these boards, even when we don't agree 100%.

I do understand that the message that you quoted provided an opportunity and a context in which an important statement (which needs to be made) could be made and that some people effectively need to be reminded. (Incidentally, you actually stated a point of view which I share.) I've probably done that before myself.

What rubbed me the wrong way is that, even if it wasn't your intention - and I can believe that - is that my point of view seemed appeared up and loss all its nuances for the sake of making a statement. Quoting a message and using the second person makes things sound personal.

So - no hard feelings and thanks for clarifying.



2012/07/31 06:56:16
Jonbouy
No worries Rain, I know I have a bucket mouth and come across as abrasive at times...

I always enjoy your company round here.
2012/07/31 07:00:14
Jonbouy
JohnKenn



 
any way to fix posts so we don't have to edit to remove pixel/font debris??...


If it's formating errors I tend to select and cut the entire post drop it in Notepad then copy and paste it back from there.


2012/07/31 23:48:19
JohnKenn
Thanks Jon
2012/08/01 12:30:13
Kalle Rantaaho
I don't have Waves software.
I'm not sure I've fully understood, what this end of support means in this case. If it means that after updating my PC I could not anymore activate this software for use, it's not correct business manners, IMO.

In such cases there should be offered a minor update to the software which makes it possible to release the software from regular activation procedure and maybe give the users a permanent activation code, which can be used independently. Of course that would make it possible to pass the software on to other users, but the company can't call it a loss, actually. They've let the horse loose and it's not their concern anymore where it gallops.
2012/08/01 23:35:07
Rain
Kalle Rantaaho


I don't have Waves software.
I'm not sure I've fully understood, what this end of support means in this case. If it means that after updating my PC I could not anymore activate this software for use, it's not correct business manners, IMO.

In such cases there should be offered a minor update to the software which makes it possible to release the software from regular activation procedure and maybe give the users a permanent activation code, which can be used independently. Of course that would make it possible to pass the software on to other users, but the company can't call it a loss, actually. They've let the horse loose and it's not their concern anymore where it gallops.

The thing is that we're talking about old versions of the software - and fairly inexpensive software at that. I hardly see Waves going back to modify the authorization process of such an older product - plus, as you mention, it would be the equivalent of giving it away. Especially not when the upgrade to the current version is so inexpensive (in fact, version 9 is on sale for $18, right now). 

Just like the pre-X1 versions of Sonar - I'm not sure Cakewalk would appreciate if people started re-distributing those just because they've "let the horse loose". The thing though is that Cakewalk always had an reasonable copy protection scheme, unlike Waves.


So while I don't find it correct for them to drop it completely and make it impossible for someone to reauthorize their software in the future, in all fairness, if someone wishes to continue using GTR in the future, they'll have to upgrade sooner or later. For under $20, you get that...

2012/08/02 22:23:24
JohnKenn
Friends,
 
Followup on this.
 
I had sent an outraged email to Waves about the shutdown of further activation of GTR Solo and the resulting media damage incurred.
 
Yesterday was the deadline and my tests confirmed inability to install and transfer the licenses.
 
I tried today for the hell of it, and GTR Solo installs without authorization. The initial launch took several minutes and presented as a hung process but finally came up as a functional vst and standalone on a second computer. Likely analyzing my previous purchase which is right under the contract.
 
If this is now an benefit unrestricted and extended to all Waves clients, the company has done the right thing for the end point user. Proper move and restores some faith, as this was the only moral response.
 
Best,
 
John
 
Still can't edit paragraphs. Need to follow Jon's advice. Need to contact Waves and retract my rant.
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