Thought I'd ask here (cause this is where the smartest people on the internet live)  
if anyone is knowledgable about replacing a main electrical panel and likes to type:). I have a main 150 amp breaker outside that feeds the panel (inside).

I started a thread with pics here:
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/electrical-c-d-c/492064-replace-old-fpe-load-center.html

If you have any thoughts on it, that would be great. If not, well, carry on in Am...
Thanks

Mornin Tim
Federal Pacific-Good call getting rid of it!!!
Heres my 2 cents on it LOL

Aluminum wire does require special attention at the lugs.

The Main wires feeding the breaker need to be sized correctly to the breaker and so on all the way to the Breaker Box.

The good thing having the Main Breaker outside feeding the panel is you should be able to replace the FPE box if your capable (Id get rid of it ASAP). 

Id assume the wires from the pole feeding the Meter Base are correct or the Power company would not have connected to it, then the wire feeding from the base to the breaker should be sized for the Main breaker (If not correct size, just replace Main Breaker to match amperage rating of that size wire). Then the Main Breaker in the Panel should match the amperage rating of the wire feeding that Panel.

Depending on your codes there, I wouldn't have a problem with stepping down in amperage from the Main Breaker to the Panel as long as the wire matches the Breakers ratings.

(ie-  200 amp Meter Base feeding 150 Main Breaker feeding 125 Amp Panel)

If it doesn't and you choose to replace the Panel, Id replace the panel putting a main breaker in the panel that is the lowest rating of the 3, then call a Master Electrician to come out and check your work on the panel. (Assuming things are mis-matched)

Yeh Looking at your pics Id imagine you have a 200 amp meter base and the wire sized to it from the base to the breaker and to the panel, they have just chosen to put a 150 breaker in-between for some reason.  That might come down to some rating on the Panel, if Im looking at the pics correctly their is one with the Panels info showing it at 200?

If that's the case you have a 200 amp service all the way to the panel with just the 150 breaker in the middle which wouldn't be a bad thing, just limits the circuit to 150 instead of 200.

But with that breaker in place, you should be able to easily replace the panel then have someone local check your work if needed.  There are MANY sizes (Dimension wise) of panels out there, you should be able to find one close to keep from running into wire length troubles.

One thing I did notice in your panel that has me wondering is why there are white wires connected to breakers.  Wonder what the other side of those circuits look like color code wise

Hey Mike. Thanks man.

The electric is 40 years old. I don't think anything has been changed by the PoCo. Except they did put in a new meter a couple years ago. So, they were there and saw what was what.
Actually, the lines at the stack from the pole look a little smaller than what feeds the main breaker and the panel. Not sure though.

Yea, I guess FPE is pretty bad news. I've lived in this neighborhood for 25 years and have never heard of anyone having a fire or major problem though. 
Pretty sure that most of the houses have the same panels. Still, It's probably a good idea to swap it out as insurance companies and inspectors can cause a lot of grief.
Plus, I don't want my house to burn down:)

That said, Yea, I just want to do the panel so as not to get the PoCo involved.
I look at the stuff at Lowes and HD and most of them are main breaker hubs.
Or, not enough circuits. I was looking at the 150 amp boxes, but now I'm assuming I can get get a 200 amp box and just not max it out. (I only need like 30-32 circuits).

It's hard to figure out as there is not a lot of pics or dimension layouts (that I can find) as I don't want to be wire nutting in the box.

Mike, I'm assuming that I can just take pics,  label everything, cut the main breaker power, unhook all the wires, pull the old box out, work the new box in, and hook up everything exactly the way it was and I'm good to go. Is that reasonable?

Those 2 white wires are from the AC and the hot water heater. Both use 2 breakers. I have no idea why they are like that. 

Are you an electrician?

Thanks Mike.

Good thread for lurking. I know just enuff to be...

So I'm just gonna lurk.

Just wanted to wish you good luck Tim.

best,
mike

The service feeders from the power co are 200a rated as is the can.  The 150 CB limits the current going to the FP panel. This would allow the use of smaller wire to feed the bus bars. It does appear to be 200a rated so that is not necessary. The panels look to be in good shape. Nothing looks overloaded. So replacing it would be for a reason other than it's overloaded or in bad condition. Maybe you need more power due to a new AC unit or a house addition. Since I don't like FPE panels, that's all the reason I would want. 

I would pull it all out. Go back with a 200a rated "Power Panel" which incorporates a meter base, a 200a main CB and bus bar space to handle up to 6 double pole breakers for "other stuff". It's all built into one nice neat can that mounts on the side of the house, run a stick of 2" rigid up through the roof with a boot, and slap the weather head (wasp house) on top and you're good to go. 

This is what I have on my house. I reworked this a few years back when I built on a new addition.

You can feed the existing lighting panel from the power panel (PP) using a 4 wire cable. You can also pick up the HVAC loads as well as range and dryer from this PP. All would have to be 4 wire. I pulled the 3 I just spoke of out of my lighting panel and dropped them into the PP outside, as well as a totally new sub panel for the addition. 

To answer the question about white wires on a breaker...... that would be old 240v circuits like water heaters and dryers and such. In the old days you could put the white of the multiwire on the breaker. Now days, it needs to be color coded other than white or grey to be on a breaker and not at ground/neutral potential... on both ends. 

I don't work in electrical these days (I'm in low voltage security now) but I used to do a lot of electrical work and ran across the old Federal panels quite often. I don't like them.  The breakers don't make very good connection to the bus bars. Parts are hard to get so I generally would replace them, and I think the other one I really hated was the Sylvania panels. The price I was quoted one time for 3 sylvania breakers was more than the cost of a new weatherproof Bryant panel with all the breakers to totally replace a panel...... so I replaced the panel. 

As far as mixing Al & Cu wiring..... the bus bars and breakers are usually rated for either. It will state that on them somewhere or in the panel label. If using Al, which most people will do because of costs, using a rated "de-oxidation" compound is a requirement.  Al also needs to be tightened properly. Loose AL connections will heat up and burn out.  You do not want to splice Al wire to Cu wires. If you do, it's not advisable BUT, you can do it with a properly rated splitbolt..... best not to attempt this.  Spring for wire that's long enough to reach without splicing. 

If you are not familiar with electrical work, and or are not conversant on the current and existing codes and practices in your area, it would be best to have an electrician do the work or at least look at it before you call the inspector. Electrical work on the service entrance equipment needs to be done right and inspected. 

A service change out can easily be accomplished in one day... 6 to 8 hrs or so.... including interior panel upgrade and new 4 wire feeder, but you have to have everything lined up, permits pulled, equipment on site, and all the tools needed to do the job, and a source of electricity other than your own house.  I did that many a time by myself and always got the power back on before 5pm.

Great Advise Herb 

Tim, Im not a Master electrician, Ive just worked with it for decades because of my past trades Ive done.

Im with ya on the white wiring now.  Anything that is running 220 like dryers, AC, stoves, etc...
Havent seen anyone use it with Black and White.  I believe most will go with Red and Black, must have been a money saving thing-who knows.

If you do swap it out-Yes watch what is on what circuits to keep the load balanced.
Meaning you have 2 main wires (120 VAC each) feeding the panel, these run down bars and normally will stagger back and forth as you plug breakers down the panel.  Once you pull a few and look behind the breaker you will see what Im talking about.   Keeping the load balanced is something to keep in mind.  We would have to assume its close as installed and you haven't experienced any problems with it yet.

As for replacing it just to replace it,  I had one in a house that had 6 bad (Burnt) breakers.  HD carried replacements but the cost of the 5 breakers was just about as much to rewire the house and replace the panel.  I grabbed a cart, chunked in a Panel, started counting off breakers as I threw them in the buggy, grabbed a couple roles of 12/2/G went home and got busy 
In the end it was cheaper and I felt much better about the condition of the house.

Check the amp rating on each breaker as well and mark the wires if they a different and your not sure by looking at the wires once removed.

Some might require 15 amp
Some might be 20 amp

A lot of older homes ran #14 requiring the 15 amp breaker for light circuits

then #12 on the outlets/duplex plugs requiring 20 amp breakers

Don't mix them up!!! a 20 amp breaker on #15 wire is asking fire a fire.

Thanks guys.
Well, the reason I want to replace it is mainly because they are supposed to be dangerous panels. Inspectors flag them when selling, and lots of Insurance Cos won't insure with them. It's been working for 40 years but... 
Also, I'm in the middle of a kitchen rehab. The ceiling is ripped out and this would be a good time to run a separate 20 amp circuit for a microwave. I do have a separate 15 amp circuit available for that but I'm not sure if it is sufficient. I think code says all kitchen outlets should be 20 amps.
If it's all too much money though, I might just take my chances and deal with it when/if I sell the house at time of closing. That's why I'm saying if I can just swap it out using all the existing wiring with no snafus then that would maybe be $200. If I get an electrician and the power co involved with upping the service and whatever else, it would probably head into the thousands $$.


Herb, you lost me on a lot of what you said.

There is no "lighting panel". The panel in the pic runs everything including a pool pump, AC, and all the other normal stuff. As far as being "familiar with electrical work", not really. I just do what's there (copy/duplicate it). 

Anyway. Electricians coming tomorrow. Maybe I can get some info out of him.

Thanks guys