• Techniques
  • The whining in the music industry and longing for days of yore-Let's talk solutions! (p.2)
2014/11/04 16:49:43
dubdisciple
Benn i agree and try and do my part.  I teach kids how to use modern studio techniques  but I have also been supplying an acoustic band of teenagers  by encouraging them and lending or giving them what little I can afford.  i encourage them to come in the studio too (which they can record for free) so that they can properly capture their creativity. 
 
As for the disparity between rich and not so rich stars.  That's another one of those things where that has always kind of been the case.  The list of artists who managed to get very wealthy and stay that way is shorter than most people think. At no point did artists get a big share of the record sales pie.  When you look at a list of wealthiest musicians, the bulk of wealth is from tours that came long after their heyday as chartoppers like Jimmy Buffet) or shrewd business deals like Dolly Pardon. Even the bulk of Jay-z's wealth is not from actual record sales.  The only insanely rich one I can think of off the top of my head  who has a significant chunk of his money from royalties is Paul MCCartney and even that is combined with 100 million dollar plus tours and licensing agreements.
 
On a brighter note, artists do have new ways to monetize their talents that did not exist  a few decades ago.  Music for games and apps is one.  A viral video on youtube will make an artist much more than a typical record deal.  I was shocked by some of the figures I saw for artists who have not even sold a record. If an artist is lucky enough to go this route, they have more leverage in securing a better deal than the ones typically secured by new artists. 
2014/11/04 17:24:35
dubdisciple
Ben, btw, I think this is a great topic to muse over even if no consensus solution comes out.
2014/11/05 18:21:06
Makzimia
Lots of good thoughts above me. I play live still acoustically, and no PA even in places others need one. I take pride in my live abilities, hold a tune, be loud enough to be heard, write good songs, (I'm told). My personal feeling is, and I warn you, this is out there!. If we suddenly lost all electrical appliances use around the world, it would be the greatest day in the world for all musicians and artists in general. We would suddenly have real value, those of us who actually can play live, and the pretenders would all be gone. 
 
The issues are many, my solution is nasty I know :D.
2014/11/05 18:30:51
dubdisciple
Makzimia
Lots of good thoughts above me. I play live still acoustically, and no PA even in places others need one. I take pride in my live abilities, hold a tune, be loud enough to be heard, write good songs, (I'm told). My personal feeling is, and I warn you, this is out there!. If we suddenly lost all electrical appliances use around the world, it would be the greatest day in the world for all musicians and artists in general. We would suddenly have real value, those of us who actually can play live, and the pretenders would all be gone. 
 
The issues are many, my solution is nasty I know :D.


I don't think your solution is nasty and i do realize it is tongue and cheek, so please don't take my reply as anything nasty.   I find your solution narrow in the sense that it ignores a lot of factors. For instance, the extra hours spent doing all the work those appliances save us would likely reduce time allocated for music. Other people too would be spending too much time doing more manual labor to give more value to artists. For arts like painting and sculpture, much like today, the actual purchasers and benefactors were mostly limited to the rich.  In a world with increased manual labor, it might well return to that across the board. Folk music done for free may enjoy a surge in popularity.  Unless your current audience is hardcore Amish who are used to being without even basic things we take for granted, the same audience that enjoys you now could disapear too :)  Be careful what you wish for
2014/11/05 20:37:02
bitflipper
Starise
One thing I recently heard that has stuck with me is a statement recently made by blind artist and musician, who is very successful. He said- " You are responsible for your own music career ". I agree with that comment. 

I'd take that one step further: you are responsible for your own music, period.
 
We here are fortunate that we can make our own music. Make music you want to hear and forget what anybody else thinks of it or whether it might make you some money. That's how it was for centuries before a bunch of non-musicians decided they could build an "industry" around it. Those times will become a historical footnote, a curious and short-lived phenomenon.
 
During the Alaskan gold rush, a fellow sailed up from Seattle with a newspaper under his arm. On arrival he was immediately offered $10 for the newspaper. In the spirit of the gold-rush mentality, he declined and instead hired a boy to read the newspaper aloud in a saloon, charging $1 to enter. His 10-cent investment paid back hundreds of dollars. But it was a brief opportunity.
 
Today, nobody in Alaska bemoans the loss of newspapers being read aloud in a saloon. They don't even mourn the death of newspapers. I do not mourn the days when my musical menu was tiny and dictated by AM radio. I will not be sad when musicians can no longer afford private jets, or when MBA suits in Japan move on to some other industry because they can no longer guarantee millions from pushing pap onto gullible kids. I won't even grieve over ordinary working-class musicians having to take a day job to feed their children. Join the club.
 
And next, let's kill professional sports.
 
 
 
2014/11/06 00:59:46
sharke
Bit, you just reminded me of a story I remember reading in the news in Britain in the late 90's. In fact I'm going to dig it out: 
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/money-are-you-ready-to-rock-n-dole-1167173.html
 
 
NEW LABOUR'S Welfare to Work plans threatening dole payments for the young unemployed were the last straw for many of the party's supporters in the pop music industry.
People such as Creation Records' owner Alan McGee argue that the dole has played a vital part in building the UK pop industry, allowing talented beginners to work on their music for a few years with no distractions. Taking this basic subsidy away, they claim, would sabotage Britain's impressive record of producing internationally successful bands, and hit Britain's earnings from record sales abroad.

 
You cannot make this up! And it gets better....
 
Last week, Andrew Smith, the Employment Minister, announced details of the so-called "rock 'n' dole" scheme to allow 18-to-24-year-olds to continue claiming their Jobseekers' Allowance of pounds 39.85 a week for 13 months, providing they can persuade the job centre clerks that they are seriously pursuing a career in music.

 
Imagine that! The government paying for you to sit on your ass until you find your creative muse! 
 
2014/11/06 14:29:49
BenMMusTech
sharke
Bit, you just reminded me of a story I remember reading in the news in Britain in the late 90's. In fact I'm going to dig it out: 
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/money-are-you-ready-to-rock-n-dole-1167173.html
 
 
NEW LABOUR'S Welfare to Work plans threatening dole payments for the young unemployed were the last straw for many of the party's supporters in the pop music industry.
People such as Creation Records' owner Alan McGee argue that the dole has played a vital part in building the UK pop industry, allowing talented beginners to work on their music for a few years with no distractions. Taking this basic subsidy away, they claim, would sabotage Britain's impressive record of producing internationally successful bands, and hit Britain's earnings from record sales abroad.

 
You cannot make this up! And it gets better....
 
Last week, Andrew Smith, the Employment Minister, announced details of the so-called "rock 'n' dole" scheme to allow 18-to-24-year-olds to continue claiming their Jobseekers' Allowance of pounds 39.85 a week for 13 months, providing they can persuade the job centre clerks that they are seriously pursuing a career in music.

 
Imagine that! The government paying for you to sit on your ass until you find your creative muse! 
 




Now I will pay that, and it is interesting that the British government, probably one of the few governments in the world (and by government I mean successive) who understand the rich culture that Brittan has because of their arts.  This idea to pay one for their creative output via a dole subsidy shows a progressiveness which is lacking in today's world. 
 
Thanks for all the comments guys, lots to muse over I think.  I think and hope the boffins have taken some of what been said on board and get on board rather than continue their luddite ways!
 
Ben
2014/11/06 14:52:21
sharke
BenMMusTech
Now I will pay that, and it is interesting that the British government, probably one of the few governments in the world (and by government I mean successive) who understand the rich culture that Brittan has because of their arts.  This idea to pay one for their creative output via a dole subsidy shows a progressiveness which is lacking in today's world. 
 


I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I don't see anything "progressive" in encouraging people to accept welfare for anything other than genuinely not being able to work or find work. Nor in forcing hard working stiffs to fund a lifestyle which, in most cases, isn't going to result in an artistic career. There is an enormous amount of self respect to be gained in working for a living, especially when you're young. I know a few people who took the path of "not working" on the public dime to "get some music together," and some of them are now in their 40's having never managed to get their music careers off the ground and are in the unenviable position of having reached this stage in their lives without having ever been in employment. And now they don't have the confidence to find work, especially since they would have to explain to a prospective employer what in the hell they've been doing for the last 20 years.
2014/11/06 15:03:17
dubdisciple
As much as i love the arts, the idea of paying taxes for people lay on their artsy arses collecting checks in hopes they might make some timeless piece of art does not fly with me. I'm all for funding arts and even grants, scholarships, etc, but within reason and certainly not in a capacity where they don't work. I want to cultivate my megalomania while i perfect my plot to takemover the world but I don't expect the government to carry me until I get it together.
2014/11/06 15:20:09
bitflipper
dub, you live in Seattle. We've been paying for stuff like this ($2.6M last year) since 1973:
 

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