craigb
Thanks for the info Danny! Sounds like one of those boxes that you really need an online tool to help you visualize what to do.
I'm currently running three pre's: A VHT Valvulator GP3, A Mesa Boogie Rectifier Recording Pre and a Peavey Rock Master (loaded with NOS Mullards). All of these go through my discomboluator (also known as a patch bay) so that I can get my TC Electronics G-Force into the mix before sending the resulting mess to a VHT 2/50/2. I'm pretty sure that a decent guitarist could get just about any tone they want out of it (especially when all of my modded pedals are added). My results, however, are still hit or miss of course! LOL.
Craig....you got some really cool stuff there. I've been wanting to try that Mesa recording pre for a long time. Is it any good? I actually wanted to see how it would be for a live situation as a back-up for my 2101. They are discontinued and I've been buying up as many as I can on Ebay for parts etc. Thankfully I've been lucky with mine and out of the 4 full units I have, only one is experiencing some issues that we can't figure out.
G-Force is awesome! Is that the one with the distortion pre in it? That, I wasn't crazy about...very digital sounding distortion there, but the other effects and possibilities in the G-Force are incredible.
When you say "hit or miss" what exactly is involved with the "miss"? Like, do you find yourself messing around a lot while never quite happy with the results? If so, where do you think things may be failing? Anything you could let me hear....as far as the "miss"? Or, a tone you feel you worked really hard on that at the end, just made you miserable?
Just about always, we need to be taught what to listen for unless you just have a knack for this sort of thing. I will admit, I certainly did NOT even though I've had quite a few people compliment my tone over the years. I think when you can play decent and have a few friends in yoru corner, you get a bit more credit than you deserve and that was my biggest thing. Everyone knew I tried really hard and put in the time. I was able to play quite a few things that most in my area weren't quite up to par to play. So that sort of puts you higher up on the ladder....when in reality, my playing was mediocre at best and my sound needed loads of work.
I found this out when I started getting into recording as well as doing better while playing out. As my bands would rise a bit in stature, this brought about better rooms to where you either had house sound, or you had to hire a soundman. Many times I'd get a soundman that was brutally honest and he'd totally rip my sound to shreds telling me all that was wrong with it and how it needed to be fixed.
At the time though, you're thinking "pff, I'm climbing the ladder here and people are diggin' what I'm doing." But, there comes a time when you meet a soundman that knows how to get through to you instead of being a Richard Cranium about it. I met one that really helped me and sorted out a lot of my issues. From there, I was in a better place with my live tones but still was a bit clueless in the studio.
I mean I had what I call acceptable tones in the studio just about always, but never quite what *I* had hoped they would be. Always too much gain, too much bass, not enough compression because I didn't really know when enough was enough or how I could even tell if it was working correctly...you know, stuff like that. I got this bass player one time that joined my band after my first album was released. He was an awesome recording engineer and man, he took me under his wing and totally showed me what the deal was on EVERYTHING. My entire world changed after meeting this guy. He was brutal, nealry made me cry a few times lol....but man, he knew his stuff! One day, he go frustrated with me after we had tracked some stuff at my studio.
He said "I'm going to mix this, you're going to sit and watch." So we went to his studio, which at the time, was a REAL studio where mine was just a little building that wasn't even set up right. His place was his source of income and man, it was loaded with gear, all the right room tuning, monitors, pre's...you know, a REAL studio. I watched him mix what I had recorded for each instrument. The prints I got were actually quite good, but even there, he showed me where I went wrong and what I should do in the furture.
It was amazing the things he did to all the instruments. In particular, my guitar sound. At this time, I was in love with my tone. With love, comes blindness. What a lesson I got! He showed me how congestive mids can make the guitar disappear in the mix with other instruments as well as how too much bass can be a total problem. He showed me what good compression was supposed to sound like and how not enough would make the guitar seem to appear and disappear at random. How bass shouldn't have as much low end as we think and how you create a good working relationship with the kick drum. It was just....mind-blowing and stuff that I sincerely think would have taken me 5 years or more to learn on my own. Imagine having someone mix your stuff and you sit there and watch. This is what sparked the idea for me about the videos I do for people. I'm not only the DZL president, I too was a student. LOL! :)
But yeah man, it's soo important to know what to listen for...I can't stress that enough. Most times, we already have the tools to create great sounds. We just need a little push and some direction to know how to utilize those sounds as well as what to listen for. This could be the case with your guitar tones that may have missed the mark a bit. Or, sometimes you DO have a great tone, and the other instruments make it sound bad. This whole field is a nightmare at times because all the instruments feed off of each other. Sometimes directly, other times sort of indirectly...but it's one big ball of goo in the end. You just have to mold that ball into something that resembles art. LOL!
Ever mix a tune and actually come up with a guitar sound that nealy makes you want to throw up when you solo it up...yet, for some dumb reason, it sounds great in a mix with other instruments?! I can't tell you how bad THAT annoys me! I so wish it weren't the case...but sometimes, that's just how it pans out. I mean ok, I don't think I've ever had a sound in one of my mixes (other than when I was first getting into this lol) that made me want to throw up when solo'd....but there have been a few that left me shaking my head while asking myself "how and why does this work?!"
Anyway, if you ever want to share any of the "misses" or I can help you sort anything out, send me a pm or an email man. Most of this stuff doesn't take long to figure out. From my posts on this subject, quite a few guys have contacted me to give them a little advice....3 of them are on cloud 9 right now because they just needed to know what to listen for and now that they do, it opened up a whole new world to them. :)
-Danny