Bub

I've never heard one second of anything from a lot of you that claim to be using Sonar as professionals.

Seriously.

www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton
 
All the music videos were done with Sonar X2, and for whatever reason, it has been very well-behaved in my studio. You'll also find some videos on mastering techniques with Studio One Pro :) And there's a video of a live performance using Ableton Live. Right tool for the right job, and all that.
I also use Sonar for narration, which includes video projects I've done for Acoustica, Gibson, Harmony Central, Cakewalk, PreSonus, Avid, Olympus, Guitar Center, and other companies.
 
As I've stated before, I know how to use, and do use, a variety of programs. It just so happens that Sonar does what I need for the type of projects I do. If I had to do engraving-quality notation, or score feature films, I probably wouldn't use Sonar.
 
I think more people should spend their time finding the tool that meets their needs best rather than trying to force a tool that wasn't designed for their needs to fit their needs. Also, recognize that all software has bugs. Part of trying to find the right tool involves finding software whose bugs are not relevant to your particular workflow. 

  
 

I think this forum has taken this rather well considering that comparing Mixcraft  to Sonar is like comparing a row boat to a battleship. Somewhat insulting. 

I DLed Mixcraft just to see what it was like. It is now uninstalled. It didn't run well and it was not a good experience.

What Mr. Particle sees in it is rather baffling. 

John

Marcus Curtis

godparticle


Truth is that you simply wouldn't be a dope for using Reaper or Studio One or Mixcraft, those DAW's don't fu_k with your mix every day and get in the way of putting out the goods. But using Sonar, well hey, enjoy the incessant bugs and anomalies that just keep popping up day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, upgrade after upgrade, decade after decade. HULLOOOOO? Biff this sh_t until cakewalk stops taking you for a ride people, how long are you gonna let them keep yanking your chain. Clearly, going by Sonar's track-record for the last decade Cakewalk needs a new head-programmer and a proper team of coders who know what the hell they are doing. No DAW on the planet has the disgusting track-record that Sonar has, and continues to have. If i owned Cakewalk I would have sent the head-programmer out the door years ago, he's a total dud, and has amply proven that he's an amateur.  

I currently have a song running 19 individual softsynths each on their own track, plus 18 audio tracks, plus tonnes of realtime midi, and over 120 effects ALL RUNNING IN REALTIME STRAIGHT OFF THE CPU WITH NO CRACKS OR POPS AND AT ZERO LATENCY, and still my CPU IS ONLY AT 21%. NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL A PROFESSIONAL DAW. Oh hang-on, i forgot, we are fu_kwits for not doing a 5 year diploma in Windows configuration and hardware research LOL, you guys and your 2 cent come-backs are just a sad lot. The facts show that Sonar is a lemon, plain and simple, it has been from the start, and just keeps getting worse, but Mixcraft has shown itself to be a reliable competent full-fledged Pro DAW, which only costs $149 i might add; I don't need to use a multi-fader console, i make dance music with high-end analog-emulation software plugins and a midi controller, and all's good here.

And obviously as you can see by the KeyBoard magazine review, i ain't talking sh_t. 

I go over to groove 3 for a few weeks and come back to this? WOW....I found this whole thread entertaining so I decided to go back to grove 3 and look for a tutorial on Mixcraft ....looking ......looking ....I mean version 7 they must need tutorials that explains how to use a profesional DAW like Mixcraft right? looking ......... looking .........hmmmmm. 


there is a bunch of pro tool videos. there are some reaper ones there are some cubase. oh look a few studio one videos....wow look at all the Sonar videos. detailed videos of instruction. hmm still looking for that professional DAW Mixcraft video. oh look, there is a fruity loops video...nope don't see it.


Well the next step is to go to the Mixcraft website look what it says.


"Recording yourself for the first time may seem daunting - but it doesn't have to be. If you want to record vocals, guitar, or other musical instrument with your computer or MIDI then you'll need an audio interface. An audio interface is the hub between your audio source & Mixcraft." I just thought that was very...ummm instructional.


http://www.acoustica.com/mixcraft/studio-gear.htm


Well then the next step is to look at the features of Mixcraft. oh look a feature comparison chart. Voxengo Amp Simulator, Voxengo Spectrum Analyzer, Shred Amp Simulator, Broadcast Mulitband Compressor, all the classic Kjaerhus effects. There are a lot of older plug-ins that are included that just happens to be freeware.  anyone can download those vst plugs for free. That is one reason Mixcraft is so cheap. but look if I pay more money i can get even more freeware. Oh joys of excitement fill my bowels!


http://www.acoustica.com/.xcraft/compare.htm 


I'm sorry Sonar has not worked for you. Did you buy the full version or did you buy essentails. Just wondering. What version did you use? I don't have the problems you seem to think everyone is having. I guess i must be in that 25 percent catagory. I am not saying people don't have problems and Sonar is not perfect. I do think you are talking sh_t as you say. Why else would you be here? If there was no entertainment value for you would be gone. While I don't doubt you have issues I don't think all of them are with Sonar! 


Football fans don't take this the wrong way but mixcraft Fanbois are worse then Some of the Dallas cowboy fans I run into!

Marcus you need to stay around here and keep things in perspective for us all. That post was brilliant! 

I even agree with you about the Dallas Cowboys point. They sure aren't my team. I'm a Detroit Lions fan, need I say more?  

Thanks John, most people in this forum have a better grasp on things then I do, that is except for the particle of God that lacks wisdom and understanding. I did take a long hard look at Magix....I mean Mixcraft. The feature request showed a lot of insight.


If I buy the 49 dollar version I get some basic features  like the kjaerhus collection, but the 79.00 version includes Shred Amp simulator (which is pretty good for freeware) and Broadcast multiband compressor which is also freeware. Don't get me started on the software synths. I bet you this included freeware software synth for the 79 dollar price will give Rapture a run for its money.


http://www.martinic.com/combof/ 


here is the link to get the Shred amp


http://acmebargig.com/product/shred/ 


Seems to me that Mixcraft is nothing more then a collection of freeware with rewritten audacity code. Then again maybe I am just a, how you say it?....Fanboi

Well John, I think so much depends on what you want to do. Mixcraft has really good video capabilities, and a lot of very useful loops. Some people see it as a sound library for needledrop music with a DAW attached, others as a direct-to-YouTube way to generate videos to post their music online.

I think it's vital to this industry that products exist for all levels of users, as well as for users with a variety of needs. Sonar X2 is overkill for some people, but I need all the tools it offers so I'm really glad it exists.
 
Back in the day, when people were transitioning from 2" 24-track to digital, I always recommended Pro Tools simply because it followed that tape/mixer paradigm more closely than any other program. But after quite a few of those people became comfortable with "DAW-think," they ended up finding other programs that were better-suited to what they wanted to do. Still, I don't think they could have made that transition without the intermediate step. And of course, some people stuck with Pro Tools because all they really needed was a replacement for tape and a mixer.

John


I think this forum has taken this rather well considering that comparing Mixcraft  to Sonar is like comparing a row boat to a battleship. Somewhat insulting. 

I DLed Mixcraft just to see what it was like. It is now uninstalled. It didn't run well and it was not a good experience.

What Mr. Particle sees in it is rather baffling. 

i agree,
i had to see what all the hoopla was about so i checked it out as well.
im not just saying this to be negetive to my particles.
but honestly,it remeinded me of pro audio 9 in many ways.
very simple interface,gui looks more like a coloring book than a professional daw.
and very limited features.like automation for example.
theres only a few different parameters.
the effects are bland and weak and resemble more of something you would download as a free plug in from KVR.
 
nothing to see here folks move along.

Anderton


Well John, I think so much depends on what you want to do. Mixcraft has really good video capabilities, and a lot of very useful loops. Some people see it as a sound library for needledrop music with a DAW attached, others as a direct-to-YouTube way to generate videos to post their music online.

I think it's vital to this industry that products exist for all levels of users, as well as for users with a variety of needs. Sonar X2 is overkill for some people, but I need all the tools it offers so I'm really glad it exists.
 
Back in the day, when people were transitioning from 2" 24-track to digital, I always recommended Pro Tools simply because it followed that tape/mixer paradigm more closely than any other program. But after quite a few of those people became comfortable with "DAW-think," they ended up finding other programs that were better-suited to what they wanted to do. Still, I don't think they could have made that transition without the intermediate step. And of course, some people stuck with Pro Tools because all they really needed was a replacement for tape and a mixer.

Mr. Anderton your wisdom is unchallenged by me and as you must already know you are a kind of hero to me. None the less, this thread is about an OP admonishing Sonar users on a CW forum to throw out their beloved Sonar in favor of Mixcraft. For some it may have value. I do not quibble with that notion. For the sort of user on this forum running Sonar X2 Pro its absurd to consider it to replace X2. That was and is my only point. 

For video I use Vegas Pro. I would like a small, solid and usable program to do small videos and have so far not found one including Mixcraft. 

If you look at my quoted post with this perspective I don't think we are in any disagreement. 

Anderton

Bub

I've never heard one second of anything from a lot of you that claim to be using Sonar as professionals.

Seriously.

www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton
 
All the music videos were done with Sonar X2, and for whatever reason, it has been very well-behaved in my studio. You'll also find some videos on mastering techniques with Studio One Pro :) And there's a video of a live performance using Ableton Live. Right tool for the right job, and all that.

Surprisingly, there is a lot of stuff on Youtube done with X2. Of course, that was the only Sonar version I searched for, so I can't compare it to say, X1 or previous versions. What I ran across seems to be all Midi based. I can't recall one with any Audio tracks at all, although I'm sure they're out there.

I think more people should spend their time finding the tool that meets their needs best rather than trying to force a tool that wasn't designed for their needs to fit their needs. Also, recognize that all software has bugs. Part of trying to find the right tool involves finding software whose bugs are not relevant to your particular workflow.

Now this is going to cause some self inflicted internal head trauma to a few folks ... but I love Sonar.

Yes, I said I LOVE Sonar.

It is my tool of choice. I don't want to use another tool, I love the tools in Sonar and want them to do what they are supposed to.

I've yet to find anything comparable to the Step Sequencer. I can use that thing and create a drum part that I promise you, you couldn't tell from live playing.

I think that point gets lost in all the threads about the bugs.

As for system stability and all that discussion, I haven't had any system instability in many years. I had a few bad sticks of RAM one time, I can count on one hand, not including my thumb, the number of HDD's I've had go bad. I've swapped components such as Video Cards that I wasn't happy with the performance of, but 'stability' ... no problems. Had a PC get hit by lightning one time. Burned a big hole in the back of it where it went in through the modem. :)

I was an avid PC gamer at one time, you want to talk about making a machine run lean ... talk to those guys. This 'daw tweaking' is a joke compared to the extremes we used to go through. I've given up on PC gaming, went with a Playstation.

Well, anyway, here's to X2B and may it make all our dreams come true. LOL :)

John

Anderton


Well John, I think so much depends on what you want to do. Mixcraft has really good video capabilities, and a lot of very useful loops. Some people see it as a sound library for needledrop music with a DAW attached, others as a direct-to-YouTube way to generate videos to post their music online.

I think it's vital to this industry that products exist for all levels of users, as well as for users with a variety of needs. Sonar X2 is overkill for some people, but I need all the tools it offers so I'm really glad it exists.

Back in the day, when people were transitioning from 2" 24-track to digital, I always recommended Pro Tools simply because it followed that tape/mixer paradigm more closely than any other program. But after quite a few of those people became comfortable with "DAW-think," they ended up finding other programs that were better-suited to what they wanted to do. Still, I don't think they could have made that transition without the intermediate step. And of course, some people stuck with Pro Tools because all they really needed was a replacement for tape and a mixer.

Mr. Anderton your wisdom is unchallenged by me and as you must already know you are a kind of hero to me. None the less, this thread is about an OP admonishing Sonar users on a CW forum to throw out their beloved Sonar in favor of Mixcraft. For some it may have value. I do not quibble with that notion. For the sort of user on this forum running Sonar X2 Pro its absurd to consider it to replace X2. That was and is my only point. 

For video I use Vegas Pro. I would like a small, solid and usable program to do small videos and have so far not found one including Mixcraft. 

If you look at my quoted post with this perspective I don't think we are in any disagreement. 

Correct, we aren't; all your points are well-taken. I certainly would not throw out Sonar in favor of Mixcraft (although once sitting in a hotel room when editing a video and needing to throw together a music bed in 15 minutes, Mixcraft was ideal because of its loop library). I guess my point is more about every program having merit for particular applications, and that matching the application to the software is paramount. If all you need is GarageBand...then all you need is GarageBand. I know a lot of people who are happy with GarageBand; more power to 'em.
 
I think you're right that the world needs "Vegas Pro for Mortals." I use maybe 30% of its potential, but am very thankful for that 30%!
 
I had an interesting conversation at NAMM with Phil Clendeninn from Yamaha, one of their top clinicians. He said there's no such thing as bad sounds, only inappropriate ones. That really stuck with me. I think that's probably true of software as well.

What's a Mixcraft? Is that like a Kitchen-aid, or sumpin'?

I better not tell anybody I'm on an album project using Cake and pro tools at the moment ;)
What's best? Who cares, whatever tool does the job. Can anybody tell me which songs in the top 40 are made with PT, cake, cubase just by listening?