• Techniques
  • Now that I'm done painting the studio... (p.2)
2014/09/09 18:13:02
Rain
mixmkr
I think some of the Auralex stuff can approach being OK.  Long time ago, I ordered some fancy looking stuff and it basically did nothing as compared to the bass traps and wall absorbers make with the ubiquitous rigid fiberglass on home treatments you see nowadays.
I will say, I've never walked into a big boy studio and seen rigid fiberglass hanging on the walls or stuffed in corners. (ala Ethan Winer style or his counterparts)  The movable gobos were the only place I saw stuff like that.




Our friend's studio has a mix of both foam and home made fiberglass thingies. He built his studio with the help of a big shot who assisted him with the sound treatment aspect of things.
 
For a private/home studio, it's definitely more on the high end than anything I could dream of - his empty desk alone is probably worth more than all my gear... :/
 
 It's an awesome sounding room. But it also goes against some advices which I read on the web, from people who seem to get incredibly anal about room acoustic. Those people's musical output I've never heard though - but I've heard our friend's mixes in his studio as well as mine and in many other places - if the proof's in the pudding, well...
 
Personally, I see room treatment as an ongoing project that I can work on and keep on improving over time. I agree that some things may not be as optimal as others or even questionable, but as I said, only just those curtains that hang on the wall have a noticeable impact on the sound - though I didn't buy them for their acoustic properties, which would have to be practically inexistent. 
2014/09/09 18:30:24
mixmkr
yes.... the pudding proof.  I always put that first.  When people have links to their pudding proof after some strong comments, I like to hear what their pudding sounds like.
Good luck on the updates...and you'll get that control room you desire sooner than you think.  The bar isn't too high.
2014/09/09 20:22:14
blindhorse
Hello Mr. Rain, I am so envious of you.  I wish that I could have a dedicated space to have a studio.  I love the red and black.
 
I would also like to tell you one more thing.  There is no perfect room.
 
Do not let your room obsession come before your music.
 
Tweak your room the best you are able; always taking in to account the budget, reality, and Mass.  The Low end will haunt all small room mix acolytes; low end will haunt pros too.  With that said, nothing haunts us more than a reluctance to learn and compromise.
 
Become one with the room.  Know her weaknesses and strengths.  Study, study, study, acoustics of recording; then forget all that you have learned and use your ears.
 
Strive for an awesome room, not a perfect room.  Leave time to improve yourself, and the room will follow.
 
One more thing...take your guitar, and walk around your abode as you jam out.  Listen closely to all the resonances, nulls, and maskings that you are humanly possible to discern.  I would think that you may find some excellent locations which would yield marvelous results concerning the myriad of compositional workings that will reveal themselves as you make your journey...Your "room" will have nothing to do with it, so record there too!
 

I can't wait to hear the results.  Please share when you are confident enough.

 
the blind horse
 
 
2014/09/10 13:18:19
wst3
mixmkr<snippity>
I will say, I've never walked into a big boy studio and seen rigid fiberglass hanging on the walls or stuffed in corners. (ala Ethan Winer style or his counterparts)  The movable gobos were the only place I saw stuff like that.



Here's the deal... there are three tools one has for room treatment - absorption, diffusion, and reflection. All three of these can be part of the room design, or part of the room treatment. If you make them part of the room design you (generally) end up using less of all of them, since the room dimensions and geometry do the lion's share of the work.
 
Few of us can afford/justify a purpose built room, so we are left with room treatment. That's not a bad thing at all, just is. But it is the reason you don't often see a lot of foam or fiberglass on the control room or studio walls in a "big boy" studio.
 
Foam vs Fiberglass panels - every material has different absorptive properties. Most manufacturers of absorbers publish their own measurements, and these days the measurements are (mostly) meaningful, although you may need to read the fine print to understand how they made those measurements.
 
Both work, but both solve different problems. And once you understand which does what you can make an informed purchase, and get the results you want.
 
Before you make any purchase you need to find the optimal location for the monitors and your ears - it isn't always the most ergonomic, or attractive arrangement, so you may have to make some trade-offs, but that is the best starting point.
 
My current temporary digs are completely untreated. In fact it's a mess! But I was able to improve, dramatically, both the stereo image and the frequency balance by experimenting with placement. It is NOT ideal, but it works. I am not happy with the bottom octaves, but that turns out to be my choice of monitors, not the room (well, mostly, you know what I mean<G>). New monitors will extend the low end, and I may need to make further adjustments, but I'm anxious to give it a try. (FWIW, current monitors use a 5" driver, new ones will use an 8" driver, based on preliminary - read not in my space - auditions this will help a lot.)

Have fun! Make Music!
2014/09/10 18:01:56
Rain
wst3
mixmkr<snippity>
I will say, I've never walked into a big boy studio and seen rigid fiberglass hanging on the walls or stuffed in corners. (ala Ethan Winer style or his counterparts)  The movable gobos were the only place I saw stuff like that.



Here's the deal... there are three tools one has for room treatment - absorption, diffusion, and reflection. All three of these can be part of the room design, or part of the room treatment. If you make them part of the room design you (generally) end up using less of all of them, since the room dimensions and geometry do the lion's share of the work.
 
Few of us can afford/justify a purpose built room, so we are left with room treatment. That's not a bad thing at all, just is. But it is the reason you don't often see a lot of foam or fiberglass on the control room or studio walls in a "big boy" studio.
 
Foam vs Fiberglass panels - every material has different absorptive properties. Most manufacturers of absorbers publish their own measurements, and these days the measurements are (mostly) meaningful, although you may need to read the fine print to understand how they made those measurements.
 
Both work, but both solve different problems. And once you understand which does what you can make an informed purchase, and get the results you want.
 
Before you make any purchase you need to find the optimal location for the monitors and your ears - it isn't always the most ergonomic, or attractive arrangement, so you may have to make some trade-offs, but that is the best starting point.
 
My current temporary digs are completely untreated. In fact it's a mess! But I was able to improve, dramatically, both the stereo image and the frequency balance by experimenting with placement. It is NOT ideal, but it works. I am not happy with the bottom octaves, but that turns out to be my choice of monitors, not the room (well, mostly, you know what I mean<G>). New monitors will extend the low end, and I may need to make further adjustments, but I'm anxious to give it a try. (FWIW, current monitors use a 5" driver, new ones will use an 8" driver, based on preliminary - read not in my space - auditions this will help a lot.)

Have fun! Make Music!




I also bought 5" based on the assumption that they'd be a better choice for a smaller room, but I'm not so sure anymore. I am contemplating moving to 8" eventually. But that's really not on top of my list.
 
I can't remember the exact dimensions of this room - roughly + 9ft wide and maybe 14ft long. The desk sits in the middle of the room, a bit less than 3ft from the wall. That's the one thing I was careful of, to have the monitors far enough from that wall and the same distance from the walls on each side, and to follow the basic triangle rule.
 
I also grabbed Auralex pads to isolate them from the shelf and desk, which incidentally brings them up  to just the right height in terms of how they align w/ my ears.
2014/09/12 21:56:08
Dave Modisette
I'm envious of your freshly painted studio.  When I put my studio together, I just used some left over neutral colors from our kitchen and dining room painting session.  It's kind of like a very, very light sage color.  But I have some LED flood lights that throw color up on the walls.   To paint again would require me to spend a week tearing everything down and setting it up again.  Not appealing at all.
 
As far as acoustic treatment, I love the fiberglass panels.  I've got a few homemade units in the iso booth but I prefer to buy them professionally made and let them do all of the itching.   I was very lucky and found some being sold by a guy with a killer home entertainment center in an apartment.  He was moving to take a job out of state and he couldn't take them with him.  I found them on Craigslist and made an offer if he couldn't find someone to pay his asking price.  I got them for a song, practically.

My control room started off being a Live End Dead End design but reversed.  My dead end is behind me and is built into the walls via a helmholtz resonator design on the side walls.  I have a sofa behind me with a homemade quadratic diffusor.  I got the idea from an article written by a guy who contended that most living rooms had stereo systems on shelves opposite of a wall with absorptive furniture.  I failed to consider that I would be mixing from a position not typical of a living room listener.  Haha.   My guests get to hear it from back there though and it has helped me so far.

Eventually, I placed some other 3" and 4" thick panels strategically on the business end of the room by using the old "mirror on the wall" trick.  I find the room enjoyable to work in.

.
 
More photos - https://www.facebook.com/Gatortraks/photos_stream
 
2014/09/13 00:45:40
The Band19
That's pretty cool... I do everything in the cans. I can get some pretty good results, but I would love to have a real studio like this one day.
2014/09/13 10:04:02
wst3
feeling pedantic this morning (need more coffee!!!!)
 
LEDE(tm) was a design APPROACH championed by Chips Davis, Don Davis (no relation), and several other acousticians and audio engineers in the 1980s. As with many other things, it was based on research from earlier decades, but the advent of the Time Delay Spectrometryand TEF it was now possible to document the performance of small spaces.

The thing is LEDE(tm) and RFZ(tm) and other design philosophies, including the "Non Environment" approach are all simply (???) attempts to control reflections - and specifically to redirect, diffuse, or absorb reflections so that only "good" reflections reach the listener.
 
So the live end can be in the front or the back, and opposite either an absorptive or diffusive surface. The treatments themselves are not nearly as important as the result. I think most here probably appreciate that, but figured it bears repeating.
 
What you can not do - and yes, I've seen examples - is put the live end on the right and the dead end on the left. Symmetry is still critical, although the definition of symmetry becomes complex in surround environments<G>!
 
My point is don't get hung up on a specific approach. Some rooms lend themselves to one approach, but most rooms can be treated in any fashion as long as you pay attention to mitigating the bad reflections.
 
The other point - in a purpose built room treatments become much less important because the dimensions and geometry take care of most of the bad reflections.
2014/09/13 11:23:51
Dave Modisette
wst3
feeling pedantic this morning (need more coffee!!!!)
 
LEDE(tm) was a design APPROACH championed by Chips Davis, Don Davis (no relation), and several other acousticians and audio engineers in the 1980s. As with many other things, it was based on research from earlier decades, but the advent of the Time Delay Spectrometryand TEF it was now possible to document the performance of small spaces.

The thing is LEDE(tm) and RFZ(tm) and other design philosophies, including the "Non Environment" approach are all simply (???) attempts to control reflections - and specifically to redirect, diffuse, or absorb reflections so that only "good" reflections reach the listener.
 
So the live end can be in the front or the back, and opposite either an absorptive or diffusive surface. The treatments themselves are not nearly as important as the result. I think most here probably appreciate that, but figured it bears repeating.
 
What you can not do - and yes, I've seen examples - is put the live end on the right and the dead end on the left. Symmetry is still critical, although the definition of symmetry becomes complex in surround environments<G>!
 
My point is don't get hung up on a specific approach. Some rooms lend themselves to one approach, but most rooms can be treated in any fashion as long as you pay attention to mitigating the bad reflections.
 
The other point - in a purpose built room treatments become much less important because the dimensions and geometry take care of most of the bad reflections.


I've got to agree with you on this.  I think one of the most important considerations you have to keep in mind is how much work is it going to be to bug out if you have to move.  Or can your studio space be re-purposed at a future date.  I figure my space could be a really nice man cave/home theater set up with a separate side area that could be an office, bar or snack bar.  
2014/09/13 18:36:26
Rain
That's quite an awesome place and set up Dave - in a totally different league than my humble little place but inspiring. :)
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