2013/01/12 21:44:58
sharke
mike_mccue


Ok,

Now there is yet another casual generality that inspires further investigation.

The industrial revolution happened from the mid 1700's through to the mid 1800's.




from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution


The Industrial Revolution led to a population increase, but the chances of surviving childhood did not improve throughout the Industrial Revolution (although infant mortality rates were reduced markedly).[70][71]




70) ^ a b Mabel C. Buer, Health, Wealth and Population in the Early Days of the Industrial Revolution, London: George Routledge & Sons, 1926, page 30 ISBN 0-415-38218-1 ^ Bar, Michael; Leukhina, Oksana (2007). http://www.unc.edu/~oksana/Paper1.pdf]"Demographic Transition and Industrial Revolution: A Macroeconomic Investigation"[/link] (PDF). Archived from the original on 2007-11-27. Retrieved 2007-11-05. 


71) "The decrease [in mortality] beginning in the second half of the 18th century was due mainly to declining adult mortality. Sustained decline of the mortality rates for the age groups 5-10, 10-15, and 15-25 began in the mid-19th century, while that for the age group 0-5 began three decades later". Although the survival rates for infants and children were static over this period, the birth rate & overall life expectancy increased. Thus the population grew, but the average Briton was about as old in 1850 as in 1750 (see figures 5 & 6, page 28). Population size statistics from mortality.org put the mean age at about 26.



I'm guessing you meant from "then" to "now", rather than from then to then when you used the term Industrial Revolution.

I not in disagreement with your conclusion that more people overall survive to live long lives... I'm just commenting on the proofs you are offering, as they seem familiar and easy to agree with, yet leave me feeling as if they are some sort of convenient substitute for the discussion of nuanced details that will be required before any matters are settled on the subject of voluntary peaceful coexistence. 

In any event, the world certainly seems more crowded than ever.


all the best,
mike

The thing is, every single issue has layers of complexity. How deeply you want to get into it really depends upon the format of the discussion and how much time you have. I've been into these long-winded intellectual debates online where successive replies get increasingly verbose and involved, and before you know it each party is writing an essay complete with charts and quotes and links. And you log on to see yet another post that you have to reply to....and you know that reply is going to involve a lot of Google research to find the facts and figures you need. Sooner or later you have to put a stop to it. 


So yeah, a simple chart showing average life expectancy kind of glosses over a lot of the nuance, and we could sit here all night thrashing over that nuance until the cows come home. But I guess that's something that nobody here really wants to get into 


The overall point I was trying to make is that the Industrial Revolution and the technology and wealth creation that it made possible has improved living conditions almost immeasurably, and as much as we can argue the details of average life expectancy and what it actually meant, a simple observation of the explosion of world population since the IR kinda says it all. Populations thrive when living conditions improve. 


And yeah, you could say that the world is getting more and more crowded, but personally that doesn't bother me one little bit. The thing about complaining about population growth is, it takes a certain amount of arrogance. You are in effect saying "these new people being born....they shouldn't be here.  I, however, have a perfect right to live, and my existence on this earth isn't part of that overcrowding problem." I guess the only non-hypocritical stance to take against overcrowding would be to sterilize ones self, or taking it further, to commit suicide. 


Some people look at the exponential explosion in population growth since the IR and see a scourge. I have heard people talk like this. They are, in essence, anti-human. I see population growth as a direct reflection of improved living conditions, and of fewer babies dying. That makes me happy. I also think that it's worth considering this: the more people in the world, the more brain power we have to contribute to the problems of hunger and poverty. The leaps and strides that the human race have made in terms of knowledge and technology have, let's face it, come from a relatively minuscule pool of people. The more people we have, the larger that pool is going to be.  
2013/01/12 23:09:48
yorolpal
Charlie Daniels????  Really???  Charlie Daniels???  Now that's swinging for the fences.  What next?  Nuge??  Jesse Ventura???  Go for it, ol pal.  You are ticklin me pink.  Or is that "pinko":-)

Happiness is a warm gun.

2013/01/12 23:58:14
Bub
None of us can say what the problem actually is, so why even bother with these threads any more?
2013/01/13 00:19:05
yorolpal
Absolutely agree, ol pal.
2013/01/13 03:51:01
Rain
Danny Danzi


There is actually some cool stuff in this thread...good reads! I do have a question I'm just curious about.

Do you guys ever feel you don't belong here in this country? For example, I'm not for Democrat or Republican. All I want is for someone to come in and make us one of the greatest countries in the world again as I don't feel we are anymore. Morale is down everywhere, people are being bled dry...you know the routine. We can point fingers all we want....the truth in my opinion is the leaders of the past just put a band-aide on things so they wouldn't look bad. So it's not 1 person being at fault really but a big bunch of mess that has just snow-balled over time.

That said, every time I vote for someone, that someone loses. I no longer want to vote because I feel that I am:

A) Too stupid to understand things that I THINK I understand very well yet I am in the minority

B) Those that do not vote or feel as I do are the stupid ones

It's gotta be one or the other and to be honest, I welcome either with open arms at this point. We're in so deep with so many issues now, only Jesus Himself would be the only one to step in and say "ok look, I got it from here." LOL!

There are just so many things broken from the past/breaking in the present....I can't even watch the news or read about this stuff without feeling the need  to snap. These days, I've been taking Bub's stance....I throw my hands in the air and say "there's nothing I can do to change it." We vote for people that chirp one song before they get elected, they get in, everything changes no matter who wins. It just gets to the point of "why bother?"

We are supposed to have a voice yet our voices don't get heard and if you try to really push your point, you get bumped off or something if you even try to rise into power to fight for your rights. I wish I had the answers, but it's time for all those that are in higher places to take a look at the world instead of what goes on in their lives in that one state on "The Hill". I wish someone with some power had the answers and could implement them and make it all better. :(

-Danny 
You know, it's not just this country. I feel the same about Canada. I could even narrow it down to the province of Quebec and I'd still don't feel like I belong. Of course we share certain values and a history, but that stuff only goes so far. But when it comes to politics, meh...


As such, the more time we spend here, the more I can relate. But, as much as I can relate when I'm in New York, I'm not so sure that I'd feel home in other parts of the US. Still, I absolutely love this country.

If not for my wife's family back home, I could live here for the rest of my life. 


2013/01/13 04:39:04
SteveStrummerUK
jbow


I just encourage people to educate themselves.

+100%
 
 
2013/01/13 07:32:25
spacey
  1. Danny Danzi
    Do you guys ever feel you don't belong here in this country?





I don't feel like I belong on this planet. I can't even tell ya what gravity is that keeps me here.
 
The government? I don't want anything to do with that. Those guys are idiots IMO. They are suppose
to be smart and honest.....I know most people came close to puking when they just read that.
When I was young I remember one day when I thought they were but then I realized that they mostly just get together in rooms and just walk around bumping into each other.
 
Life expectancy? Well I didn't expect to live as long as I have so I know I don't know anything about that....and I don't trust others since I know about the government.
 
 
 

 
2013/01/13 08:30:58
Danny Danzi
Wise words olpal, Bub and Spacey. :)

One quick word about "being educated" in this whole mess....I remember either Howard Stern or Jimmy Kimmel sending reporters to NYC. They asked people on the streets what they thought of Obama's plan and used Romney's plan in place of it. Hearing them say "yeah, I think it's a great idea" just made me shake my head. The repub's they interviewed were no different...the reporters replaced Romney's plan with Obama's...and yep, you guessed it...they agreed it was the best plan of all time. LOL! Only 2 guys (one from each side) knew they had swapped the plans. Just goes to show you....so many just don't have a clue.

It's not even worth ever getting into a battle with anyone over it really because so many simply don't know. Now when they mess with the Constitution and take away rights...well, I think most of us would agree that's the wrong thing to do unless something was completely justified and voted on BY the people. Even there...super grey area. Though the big C is golden for a lot of things....in 2013, it's definitely a different world.

But hey, as long as we all get along here on the forum and remain family, that's all that matters anyway! The rest of it all stinks and at least we have this place. I'm fine with that....I'll vent and scream into my mic and write a song or something. LOL! I actually got 2 great songs regarding politics that will probably rattle a few cages...but hey, you know how it goes...you tell it how you've lived/experienced it. :)

-Danny
2013/01/13 09:37:48
timidi
yorolpal


Charlie Daniels????  Really???  Charlie Daniels???  Now that's swinging for the fences.  What next?  Nuge??  Jesse Ventura???  Go for it, ol pal.  You are ticklin me pink.  Or is that "pinko":-)

Happiness is a warm gun.

Not sure what you're inferrin there  Ol Pal. I was just sharing a point of view that someone else took the time to type so I didn't have to. 
what difference does it make who said it?


Anyway. Yea. I'm done here. I guess it is pretty hopeless.
2013/01/13 09:39:37
Randy P
Bub


None of us can say what the problem actually is, so why even bother with these threads any more?

THIS!
© 2026 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account