Bub


None of us can say what the problem actually is, so why even bother with these threads any more?

YES!  +1E9!!!

WOOF!!

When I was in my teens and 20's, everyone around me had a healthy disrespect for politicians. It didn't matter whether you were on the right or the left, all agreed that they are a bunch of lying, disingenuous, hypocritical, self serving a-holes. But now that a "cool young man with a cool slogan and cool campaign posters" is President, a frightening number of young people have developed this kind of blind hero worship. It's not healthy. I saw the video that Danny mentioned. It was eye opening. The responses from Obama supporters once they heard the policies in question were his were hilarious. They either questioned whether it was true, or said things like "well you know I'm sure he has his reasons." Of course he has his reasons, he's a politician like the rest of them. 

It's not like I support the other side either. Disclosure: as somewhat of a libertarian I have Equal Opportunities Hatred for aspects of both sides of the D/R spectrum. Then again, as a Brit who has not yet earned the right to vote, it's kinda none of my business 


I don't think there has ever been a better time to hate politicians, or a worse time to hero-worship them. My dad said something recently which struck a chord with me. He said that there was once a time when politicians on both the left and the right were genuinely passionate about their views, and that those views were strongly related to their background and experience. On the left, you'd have the time served trade union leader who'd worked his way up from the shop floor and gotten into politics. On the right, you'd have the successful industrialist who'd started at the bottom and worked his way to the top and who wanted to maintain the conditions of economic freedom that allowed him to do it. Of course this is a generalization and not always true, but the point is you had politicians with crucial real world experience. Now, you have a bunch of snot-nosed little prats who studied "political science" (guffaw!) at college and went straight into some kind of political career when they finished. And it seems like many of them didn't really care which "team" they worked for. Right or left - who cares? They go with whichever side offers them the best career with the most perks. And then they end up making decisions about things they have absolutely no experience of whatsoever. 


I read somewhere that the current administration has the least collective private-sector experience in American history. I'm having decisions made about the future of my business by people who have never even run a lemonade stand, let alone had to meet a weekly payroll. Mine is a small business but I know of people with 50+ employees who are afraid to expand or invest because they have no idea what the current crop of bureaucratic clowns is going to do next. Today's politicians are like the caricatures in an Ayn Rand novel. I have absolutely no faith in any of them, right or left. 


Having said that, I'm still positive. It doesn't matter how ridiculous and stupid and irrational and illogical society gets - the torch of reason, once lit, will never be extinguished. As long as there are at least a few people passing down common sense to their offspring, there is hope for the future (no matter how small). 

Our REAL true problem is the disconnect between Wall Street and Main Street. It is not the fault of either Wall or Main. It is bernanke and the Federal Reserve. There is a reason that Wal Street (the DOW) is going up and Main street is stagnant.

There are two symbiotic factors.

1: The value of money.
2: The cost of borrowing money.

The Federal Reserve has removed the cost of borrowing for Wall Street and the government.
Main Street still has this relationship in place and Main Street will more and more bear the burden of this craziness on Wall Street and the government and I repeat, it is not the fault of Wall Street... it is what the Fed is doing. The big banks (Wall Street) was forced to take TARP money. They are as scared as anyone probably more scared than most... but they are scared of the government so they go along. 
Bernenke and the Fed is this country's and the world's biggest potential problem. The things that can and likey will go wrong as a result of this sort of fakery are hard to understate.

Even mathematicians don't use the number 1 trillion, it is so large it has no usable meaning. Most people have no idea what a trillion is. Look it up, Google how much is a trillion. If you haven't, you will be shocked. Try to get it in seconds, a million seconds, a billion seconds, and a trillion seconds. It will scare the hell out of you, at least it should.

In any case balance must be restored to the economy, the relationship between value and cost must be restored or we will continue to dig deeper and deeper but we will not notice until it is too late, it may be too late already.

These kind of things cause widespread poverty, famine, and war. No I am not overstating it. We have had our collective head in the sand. Franky, it may be the best thing to do.

J

Bub

None of us can say what the problem actually is, so why even bother with these threads any more?

　
Why not? What is wrong with discussing these things?

If one is open-minded and respectful of other views and opinions these kind of threads should not make you upset or angry.

Do any of us have all the facts? Can we, with any certainty, separate the truths from the lies?

Of course not;  Most of us accept the stories that support our beliefs and demonize the ones that do not;  but respectful discussion is a good thing imo.

tom1


Bub

None of us can say what the problem actually is, so why even bother with these threads any more?

　
Why not? What is wrong with discussing these things?

If one is open-minded and respectful of other views and opinions these kind of threads should not make you upset or angry.

Do any of us have all the facts? Can we, with any certainty, separate the truths from the lies?

Of course not;  Most of us accept the stories that support our beliefs and demonize the ones that do not;  but respectful discussion is a good thing imo.

Out of all of the political and religious discussions on these forums (regardless of the TOS), I have yet to see any of them have an impact on any of the particpants which might cause them to think differently and nearly all of them caused someone's feelings to be hurt and/or angry.  and your statement regarding "if one is open-minded and respectful of other views" is exactly the reason.  that's almost never the case, at least not with everyone who participates.  some may be, but not all and therein lies the rub.

I agree Beagle, we really should stop. I used to be a regular at a guitar forum that has a subforum called "The Grill Room". Political and other contentious comments are allowed there but it almost always turns into insults of some kind or another and is heavily weighted to one side. People pick apart posts, line by line, and respond. Franky I have neither the time nor the interest in engaging in something like that.
On top of that some people have opinions that are so alien to me that I have a hard time talking with them about other things. Too many visits to that room has resulted in me no longer being a regular there.

I am finished with this thread. I don't want to see this place become polarized. We, for the most part, get along well here. I'd REALLY like to keep it that way.

I apologize if I offended anyone and to be sure, no one offended me.

J

Lets face it. Creationist/atheist threads are 10x worse. 

sharke


Lets face it. Creationist/atheist threads are 10x worse. 

Good thing too, cause both sides are wrong in that debate.

Good thing too, cause both sides are wrong in that debate.

 
Stop it!! Stop it now!!
 
J