• Techniques
  • A couple observations about real vs emulated amplifiers
2014/07/10 13:35:10
wst3
For a number of reasons, some of them geeky, some of them lazy, I've been really focused on recording guitars direct and using a variety of amplifier simulations to make them sound better.
 
Last night I threw a pair of e609s on a pair of amplifiers, plugged in a couple pedals, and hit "record".
 
First observation - I think I play better when I'm playing into the amplifiers. OK, maybe not better, but definitely different.
 
Second observation - man I play loud! The amp volume was considerably louder than playback volume. Probably always been that way, but I happened to notice it last night.
 
Third observation - it took me maybe 30 minutes from "gee I want to record electric guitars" to hitting record. And that's cause the studio is not set up for this sort of thing right now, I could cut that in half easily with a little effort. But ok, 30 minutes to set up two amplifiers, find and set up a few pedals, and plug in a couple microphones. I did not set up a cue mix. But I'm pretty sure I'd have spent more than 30 minutes trying different plug-ins, tweaking, etc. And with the effects baked in that's one less thing I'll play around with<G>!
 
Fourth Observation - I really liked the sound I ended up with. Pretty much exactly what I was looking for.
 
I think my amplifier plug-ins are going to collect dust for a bit...
2014/07/10 14:15:40
Rain
Came to the same realization a while ago after years of working with amp sims - especially that my playing seems better. Maybe the real amp is simply more forgiving, but at any rate, it just seems easier to nail whatever it is I'm trying to play.
 
In terms of sound quality, in some cases, I'm ready to concede that amp sims probably sound even better. Yet, after a quick session with a little Marshall MG practice amp last year, I realized that, even though the sound wasn't what I wanted, that elusive quality which seemed to be missing from my DI recording was finally back, without me having to tweak and process. There's a density... The guitar just seems to sit better in the mix, even before I start EQ'ing and compressing.
 
I don't like to play that loud, so I got myself a tiny 5w Randall tube amp. Just drop a SM57 in front of that speaker and it works every time. 
2014/07/10 14:27:09
batsbrew
there is much more of a connection between the player and the equipment, than most any simulator can replace.
 
people can argue about the 'sound' all day long.......
but after all is said and done, it's about the 'feel'....
and being inspired.
 
i just haven't ever been inspired by the way an emulation feels.
 
2014/07/10 16:26:14
Dave Modisette
I 've got most of my amp heads in my control room and I run speaker cable into my iso booth.  My pedal board lay out includes splitter boxes that can send the signal out to a Fender Bassman, AC 15, Fender Pro Jr. or a Marshall 5 watt amp.  I play and monitor from the mix position or I hire a session guy in and he plays from slightly behind me.  It's great for communication because I'll tell them what intervals I want to hear or I sing them parts if I think of one that I want to hear.
 
I keep all the amps close miked up and ready to go and I also have a couple of room mics ready to go, as well.  Lately, I've also started using a direct box to also capture the straight clean signal off of the guitar.  That's saved me when I thought I wanted a dirtier guitar sound but it wasn't working as I was mixing the project.
 
So that's my amp simulator.    I also have a POD HD500 and an AVID Eleven Rack.
2014/07/10 16:38:19
wst3
You have too much gear Dave<G>!
 
For a long time I had four amplifiers set up at all times, fed from a pedal board monstrosity that I've since rebuilt more than a couple of times. I can't remember ever using more than two amplifiers at any one time, but it was nice to be able to pick and choose.

Each amp had a dynamic microphone more or less permanently rigged, and there were stands for a second microphone (ribbon or condenser) set up as well. These were all "stupid" close, and I always thought I'd find that perfect spot, but I always seemed to end up moving them all around till I found whatever I was looking for.

There was also a room microphone set up. This was a stereo ribbon, and much to my surprise I was able to use just the room microphone more often than I ever imagined.
 
All of this made recording guitars a breeze, but somewhere along the line I ended up playing out, and it was disassembled, and never put back together again. I really need to consider putting it back together again!

My nod to direct is an Adrennalinn 2, which sits on the producer's desk. It is the only amplifier simulator/effect device I've ever really liked. And I think I use it as an effect, especially time locked effect, more than as an amp sim - although the AC-30 emulation is killer.
 
I had a couple of Line6 boxes for a while, but somehow they just never really caught my fancy. I think it might be time to give them a try again.
 
But last night proved that I need to go back to recording through amplifiers!!!!
2014/07/10 16:46:35
The Maillard Reaction
The sound of guitar amplifiers in a real live room is what caused me to want to learn play guitar. Yikes!!!
 
Amp sims remind me of the sound of MTV. Yawn.
2014/07/10 18:20:55
sharke
I haven't bought an amp since I was in my 20's. Every amp I had I ended up selling because I was short of cash, and then regretting it later. Marshall head, my Fender valve/transistor combo...I think the last amp I had was a Roland Cube, which I still have somewhere back in UK (I should really audit all my old stuff sometime and work out what I left with whom...)

I really miss amps though. Used that Marshall head in a thrash band back in '89/90 and I'll never forget what it felt like to stand in front of the stack and chug at full volume...might have lost some of my high frequencies from that but it was worth it heh heh...

I too can't get that excited about amp sims. Although they're still better than I thought they would be when I first found out that amp sims existed...
2014/07/10 18:53:52
Rain
I do like my POD HD quite a bit, but I find that it does require some extra processing to sit in the song.
 
I can dial a tone pretty similar to that of one of my amps, and I can even cheat a bit and use Match EQ to make it sound even closer to my amp'ed track. But as close as I get, it just doesn't have that "density" - for lack of a better word.
 
So far, the best results I've got were recording the POD tracks through something such as IK's British Channel via an input channel in Logic - EQ'ing and compressing just a tiny, tiny little bit. 
 
But overall, that's somewhat a bit more complex than recording an actual amp. And performance-wise, the issue remains.
2014/07/10 21:19:58
michaelhanson
I think this man noodles around pretty well on a sim.
 
http://youtu.be/BOts6VbgIak?list=PLPyY-j6Yu9Nr91VvjcrhlisQ6KFkY2Bad
2014/07/10 21:37:17
Jeff Evans
So does Jerry Stevenson with the Scuffham stuff too.
 
https://soundcloud.com/scuffham-amps
 
Go right to the bottom and listen to 'Dancing with the Lions'
 
The fact is that the better the guitarist the less concerning the signal chain is. If Frank Gambale played through an amp sim he would blow all of you away and that is the reality of it. Doesn't matter in the end, it is the music and the performance that really counts.
 
Having said that Frank likes amps and speakers too. I can sort of see why because they are so elctro mechanical in nature.
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