Tom: From what I can see, the XL basically allows for more than 100 speaker cab sims as well as a fool-proof on board back up system. I really don't know the extent of what it does. I only checked to see if it had more power for seamless program changes without using "scenes" but it doesn't, so I didn't pay any mind to it other than briefly checking into it.
 
I don't need to have more than 20 cabs loaded let alone 100 that mine can store. The XL is 400 I believe. The fool-proof back-up thing...you sort of get with the Mark II and you CAN get it for an additional $7 with shipping included by purchasing the ROM chip. With all software, sometimes you can get a glitch that makes the unit stop working after a firmware update. It's rare but it DOES happen. The ROM chip resets everything and you're back up and running. Without the ROM, you have to send the unit back. The XL has it built in. You have to ask yourself if it's worth the extra money really.
 
I really don't think you'll need the XL, then again, with this company, God knows what "future" means. The dude updates the unit just about monthly to a state that basically gives you a brand new pre-amp with more ground-breaking innovation. Sometimes it's the update you need, other times you're better off leaving things alone with an older firmware because sometimes it totally changes your patches. As long as you have things backed up with each firmware, you never have a problem.
 
For example, if I find I'm not liking my tone as much now with build 15.3, I can go back to 12.0 and restore all the stuff I had then. So it's a really good system to have. It also gives you a chance to see how far you and Fractal have come along. I've been updating my sounds and my firmware since version 9 I believe. Listening to my sounds now compared to then along with how far the unit has come in less than a year since I bought mine...and it really blows my doors off.
 
Now my big thing is sampling acoustic guitars and then playing them on my electric...oh man....pure bliss!!! Mic one up or line one in...or both at once...record the wave file, choose a clean sound, run the wave file into your Axe...play along, press the tone match button and you sound  as much like an acoustic as you can with an electric! :) I'm gravitating more towards sampling individual sounds more so than modeling my amps. I'd rather sample the best sounds in my amps that I use as it makes more sense to me. :) Most times with an amp, you only get 1-3 great sounds out of it. So heck, sample each sound and call it a day. :)
 
-Danny

Thanks Danny. It would be nice to save the $400... that sampling sounds killer. I would love to sample my old super reverb...
 
Here's the list of improvements in the XL for an additional $300: 
 

• Non-volatile Super-FLASH memory allows for storage of up to 512 presets and 512 user cabinets (plus reserves for future expansion...)
• Built-in FASLINK™ port for connection to MFC-101 Mark III over conventional XLR cables.
• Dedicated MIDI THRU jack provides lower latency MIDI relaying (vs. shared OUT/THRU in the Mark II).
• Two onboard PEDAL jacks (vs. one in the Mark II).
• VALUE knob now features an optical encoder with a lifespan of 1,000,000+ rotations.
• “Secret Sauce III” instrument input features an even lower noise floor.
• Double-capacity preset size allows for expanded functionality including X/Y switching on more blocks and more instances of effects. (Note that the processing power of the XL is the same as that of the Mark II, so whereas more effect instances might be offered, the total limit for overall preset CPU usage remains the same.)
• Built-in backup firmware allows recovery in the event of complications during update.
• Backward compatibility with Axe-Fx II Mark I/II presets via Axe-Edit software.

Ah there we go. You know more about it than I do. LOL!
 
I guess one would have to think about whether the above is worth $400. In my honest opinion looking at that list, VALUE knob and built-in backup are the only things I would want for myself personally that I don't currently have. Do any of us really need 512 presets or speaker cabs? LOL! That's insanity!
 
The other stuff could be cool depending on your situation. A lot of the pro's that use it are not using the pre-amp part, so the midi thru jack would be important to them. Why they aren't....I wish I knew as this thing holds up to any of the amps I have. It even gives the dual rectum fryer a serious run and is close enough for me.
 
I'm not using any other midi gear so I just use the MFC port which is cat 5 cable....no need for FASlink.
 
Two onboard pedal jacks works if you are creating your own pedal board and aren't using an MFC 101. What it does is...allows you to run two controller pedals (with long cables) to the Axe. If you have the MFC, you have pedal ports in there which allow you to use super short cables.
 
Mine looks like this. One cable and I'm done. And...it's WAY smaller than it looks, honest. It's about 16 inches in length. (the actual Fractal MFC pedal board)
 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4909348/WP_000197.jpg
 
Value knob sounds interesting. I never thought about mine having a life span. Hahaha!
 
Secret Sauce? Umm...not sure where they are going with that one, but this thing has 0 noise for me. Even with extreme gain, the gate takes care of everything and doesn't choke off your sound. That's one thing that I've found incredibly impressive.
 
The X/Y thing sounds impressive too, however, unless it DID offer more processing power, none of this really makes a difference for me.
 
Built in back up...definitely a plus there. However, you can easily remedy this either with a little midi device like an old Yamaha MDF 2 or any other midi box that can back-up and send presets. If you bring a laptop or some sort of notebook, all you need is your Axe preset banks and a USB cable and you can reload your sounds in a catastrophe in about a minute. As long as the unit stays on, it will keep your sounds in memory. Now for a total system failure, this is where the $7 ROM card I mentioned comes in handy. The downside is you have to install it and use jumpers to initiate it. The XL has this already...so, it may be worth $400 to have this capability if you're playing live and the unthinkable happens. Really this is the only option worth anything to me. But $400....I'm on the fence there.
 
-Danny

I need to study this thread in depth but I can already see a ton of knowledge and gear suggestions here that are going to be ever so helpful to my continuing quest for all the various tones I'm going to need for all my spastic genre experiments and fusions.

My totally n00besque experience so far? Sims are cool. Some are really cool. However what I'm finding is that applying them to a totally dry DI sound (like inputting into the Inst. connection on my interface(s)) makes me still have to "chase" my tone(s). It's like the sims are pretty accurate but I don't think they are getting a pure signal from my guitar like the hardware amps would. I'm finding more and more that the sims are working a lot better if I am feeding them a nice clean signal from my amps (mostly from direct outputs but even the minimal mic experiments I've done) gets a better result. Like using them as an after effect like how I used to handle my stage sound. I used to use old tube bass amps (for the extra power) and get my crunch from stomp boxes or when I was lucky enough to have access to them the best was Hi Watt stacks with a bright clean tone and then the stompboxes. The ONLY amps that ever came close to capturing my tone without effects were the original 5050s and even then they had to be set to the max and weren't quite there (which a Boss Blues Driver helped with especially for solos). Rectifiers were good but I had minimal experience with those and there was a bit of tone chasing. Marshall JCM 2000s were also pretty promising but I've always found the gain on Marshalls... well not to my taste (especially in the mid range).

ANY hi gain guitar tube amp would absotutely positamutely HAVE to be 100w though to cut through the chaos (which are generally very expensive, break far too easy, need regular maintenance, etc which I why I generally opted for cheaper bass amps... and eventually a specific transistor amp put out by Yorkville... the 400b with the 10 band EQ to be specific).

Whatever... none of those options work for me in my meager little studio in my extremely poorly soundproofed and tiny apartment nor are they even remotely in my budget.

So I am having to completely rethink all this stuff.

I'm ditching using the Inst. in on my interface(s) because they are alright but as I said... I have to chase the sound with the sims and general mixing tools in Sonar and the results are middling at best (and compromises are being made in regards to other instruments which is horrible... this should be easier). Using the outs on my Line6 Duoverb is alright to get a clean tone and it is a lot better of a signal to work with for sims but it's OLD and probably some of the first era of sim tech out there. It has problems basically. I have my trusty old transistor Traynor TS-140 with an XLR out, Line Out and some very nice speakers (not original... better than original actually) that I think is gonna be cool. I'm introducing my hardware stompboxes instead of using the sim versions because... well hey... real is better than sim, right? Right?! lol

Now I'm still in the beginning phase of all this but so far I'm finding doing some work with the hardware beforehand is making the initial signals more usable even if they are wet and I'm still going to ensure I have a DI line going into the interface which I can then use for the sims. I'm thinking maybe panning the wet dual ins (or quadruple ins) from the amp(s), mixer, mics, or whatever in the mix and then letting the DI signal sit slightly off center pan with whatever sim compliments the wet tracks best might be interesting. I'm having a problem where with my wet signals where if I dial in an ultra tight punchy crunch for chords (power and/or full chords) that when I start laying into single string riffs the distortion kind of breaks up and weakens a bit (no longer searing) BUT if I turn up the distortion/gain on the effect pedal or even the drive on the clean amp it is all good (nice a searing as it should be with very little change to the hardware). I obviously can't automate the controls on my pedals in the mix after the fact and I don't want to make the mistake of layering too much (like I did with Beepster Creep and honestly when I go single note with my rhythms I want it to be ONE performance because it cuts more and layering dilutes the nuances of enharmonics, bends, squeals, vibratos, etc) so I'm hoping that when I need to get that extra distortion/gain for single note runs that I can use the DI sim track to wetten things up a bit without ruining the bite of the other tracks.

The other option is to do multiple takes with one set of tracks set to the less distorted crunch for power chords (and the like) and then another with more distortion/gain for the single note stuff and splice them... but I don't like that. I'd rather it all be one take for "feel" purposes.


====================================================
 
SCREEEEECCCCHHHHHH!!!!!

WELP.... this post got interrupted by an annoying meatworld phone call and I totally lost my train of thought. I realized I had copied this into notepad to continue it but I gotta shift to nightime mode so... blathering over (for now).

Oh yeah... I was gonna ask about a couple pieces of gear I was considering but I can do that tomorrow I guess so I'll just drop this turd of a post and pontificate other more pressing things like dinner.

I appreciate the good thread, guys. Awesome stuff.

Hey Beeps....will try to get back to that other thread too...but might be able to say it all here. :)
 
Guitar sims really rely on the cab sims that are associated with them. The other side of the coin is how good the sim is itself and then of course they work even better when you have a nice conditioned signal going in.
 
As for your board, the aux outs should work fine going where you need them to go. I did some checking and low and behold, I'm sending a few of mine to my net box which has a Realtek....so I'm sort of doing the same thing you are in THAT situation.
 
So if you are sending signals into your Mackie, I would recommend some sort of processor in the line. For example, if you picked up one of those old ART pre-amps from the 80's cheap on Ebay for whatever they go for or some sort of Chandler tube driver or something, you could condition your signal going in to the sims really good. I have had the best luck with my tube pre-amp (Digitech 2101 with everything bypassed other than the clean tube pre and a little compression from it...so it's clean with no other effects) or with an outboard compressor (you can go cheap...Behringer, Samson, Alesis) and a stomp box like say a Tube Screamer, Boss Compressor Sustainer or even a Boss over-drive.
 
The pedals sort of push the line signal a bit the way you get a bit of buffered signal in a real amp. This allows you to get sustain instead of "just distortion" like you get with amp sims. They always fall short with actual feel or sustain (this is why I brought up the Fractal...it's nothing remotely close to any VST and can't be compared) so these methods will help get a bit of that back in.
 
So if you drive the signal a bit in a good way and compress it just right, you're conditioning the signal and it will behave quite well in a VST sim. So try setting something up like that if possible, go through your Mackie and then send it out to the sim. Leave the sim at default as far as levels go and you should be able to control your signals from your console. I try to send at -6 dB into Sonar at all times. There's really no set way other than the way that works for you. Hope all is well my friend. :)
 
-Danny

To echo what Danny is saying, I use a Valvulator as the first thing in my chain since I tend to push a lot of effects. When I realized I should run through that BEFORE my Mackie 1200f interface, it made a big difference in the tone in the amp sims!
 
I've got a guy trying to convince me to go with Kemper over the Axe FXII. I REALLY like the PC interface for the Axe though - it makes the programmer/tweaker in me smile! :)

Hi, guys. That's what I'm thinking the Line6 head is doing (and although I haven't tested the xlr out on the Traynor I'm assuming it will work the same). Those outputs were built specifically to feed a board, or so the manuals say. It is definitely making a big difference in my sound BUT these are solid state amps which are obviously not as good as a nice tube set up and the Line6 is OOOLLLD technology so once the faux drive/gain gets turned up it starts getting a little cheesy/fake sounding (so I just run it clean and let the stompboxes/sims do that work.
 
However are you guys saying I should be putting something ELSE in there between the amp and the board? I would very much like a decent tube mic pre that could do hopefully both mic and instrument connections but alas such a device is not in my budget. One thing I've contemplated is finding some schematics, buying some high quality electronics and building one myself (I've known guys who used to do that type of thing and it looks pretty straight forward). Could be a neat project.
 
Another question is... on my "wet" tracks (the ones going through the stomp boxes into the Line6, into the board then into Sonar) is one regarding the "cab" issue Danny speaks of. Since I'm going out of the Line6 and the signal is already effected (it sounds good) I was wondering if maybe tossing an empty sim with JUST a cabinet in it might be a good idea seeing as how there isn't any cab, sim or otherwise, already in the signal. What I'm getting now is VERY in your face and dry and I'm thinking using the TH2 cab models and mic positioning tools could be a good addition to the sound. I'm not sure what would happen to THAT signal within a sim though without an amp model loaded in the sim. It makes sense to me that what the stomp boxes and Line6 are doing would replace what the head sims/effects in TH2 would do before it got to that cab sim part... but I don't know (still have to try it out).
 
One thing that seems to have helped make the signal sound a little more natural and roomy though is simply turning up the reverb controls on each channel of the Line6 (those controls supposedly control an emulation of the original models the L6 is set too... pretty cool). I am not one who likes reverb on my guitar as an effect at ALL but am learning how good a little bit can be for creating a bit of "room" when dealing with direct signals like this. It's also a lot easier to just turn those dials on the amp than screw around with the complex reverbs in Sonar (which are very nice but I have a hard time dialing in for a lot of stuff... need more practice). Just an interesting side not about this particular setup.
 
The other thing I was going to say in my post above is a while back I was looking at one of those Fender Blues Juniors (or whatever they are called... 5-10w tube amp, beige covering, very simple controls). Once I get some more income rolling I definitely want to get some kind of simple tube amp like that so I'm not stuck with the less robust solid state sound (which particularly sucks for my bluesier/jazzier work) and I can drive the tube without getting kicked out of my apartment (hopefully... lol).
 
Considering that most good engineers seem to be able to get some really good sounding tracks happening with just the DI and a sim I figure with all this extra wackiness I'm doing I MUST be able get something decent happening with what I've got in the meantime. If not then... well maybe I just suck. lol... but that is not an option so I'll keep hammering away at it.
 
I should have this most recent offering up in the songs forum in the next month or so. THis project has been all about experimentation whereas the last couple were more about just learning how to bloody well use Sonar. After this I should have a clearer picture of what I need to get what sounds out of my outboard gear and a better understanding of the stranger/more advanced tools in Sonar.
 
Then I hope to just start writing like a fiend because I won't need to contemplate all this fiddle faddle. I will just know.
 
Thanks for the thoughts, guys and it was nice touching base with you Danny.
 
Cheers.

Oh... and I guess maybe you guys were referring to my third signal going straight into the DI which really is more of a backup signal to be used as filler with the sims but I guess I could instead of sending the split straight out from the TU-2 to the Scarlett I could redirect it to the Traynor set to super clean, then to the Mackie and then to the Scarlett line ins on the back (as opposed to the Multi In).
 
I do however miss out on the Focusrite pre (I think) which honestly does sound pretty decent for a multi in. I'd have to experiment with this to see whether the Traynor would color the sound too much to be a good starter base for a sim but it is a nice sounding amp through the speaker. It's just a matter of whether that nice sound will be similar coming from the XLR out.
 

So there are two issues to when using a buffer - the most obvious is what signal is seen AFTER the buffer (i.e. into your first pedal or your interface). The reason I like my VHT Valvulator is because of the way it handles what the guitar sees. The Valvulator literally has a valve (tube) in it, and unlike a lot of cheap crap out there (like old ART tube pre-amps) that run the tubes at ridiculously low voltages, the Valvulator runs the tube at a high voltage. Essentially, it looks like the first tube stage in a tube amp. This gives a different tone and a different feel when playing it than say plugging right into my Mackie. In fact, I plan to use it front of the Axe FX II. I put in a 12AT7 tube, which has much higher headroom than the stock 12AX7, as I don't want any breakup in this stage.
 
you might find that you have a buffered pedal that gives you good results between your guitar and interface (and you should try it). While the interfaces have a "Guitar" button and they change the impedance, I don't think they really focus on making that the best experience possible to the guitar being plugged in...

Hey Beeps,
 
A line 6 head shouldn't need anything pushing it. I was referring to DI specifically. Anything hardware has a buffer already there. Hardware meaning all amps and any pre-amps or all in one pedal boards. Anything VST we need to push the signal a bit. :)
 
James: Both of those rigs are really great. I thought of buying a Kemper for the studio just to have an extra weapon in the arsenal. But to be honest, having heard them both, I just prefer the AxeFx for my personal needs. Me doing heavier music myself, I felt the Axe FX did a better job on dirty tones than the Kemper. Clean tones, vintage tones and everything else were about even in my opinion.
 
It's a shame you can't try both for a while and make up your mind like I did. That's one cool thing about the studio business....I get to try things for a while especially when the clients become my friends and leave stuff for me to mess with. I wind up showing THEM how to use the thing. LOL! But seriously, both of those pieces are great. You don't lose going with either of them. And yeah, the software ability of the Axe is pretty slick...it makes working with it 100 times easier.
 
-Danny