• Coffee House
  • What is musical talent in this given situation? (p.10)
2012/12/28 10:49:50
Guitarhacker
MattMVS7



  .....So if a person is good at being creative in their head, wouldn't he/she be talented at being creative?  .....

NO. 


If you keep it in your head... who's to say?  The talent is PROVEN only when the idea is moved into the real world. 


Bob Dylan, Albert Einstein, John Lennon, Charlie Chaplin, Houdini, Chopin, all were very talented folks, but if they had kept their ideas in their heads we would never have known their true measure of talent.


Imagine Beethoven saying... hey I have this really brilliant idea for a 9th symphony..... and leaving it at that. 


Imagine Harry Houdini saying... hey, I have this really cool idea for an illusion.... and leaving it at that. 


Imagine John Lennon saying..... hey I have a really cool idea for a song called Imagine.... and leaving it at that. 


NO, NO, NO, and NO again!!!!  .... being creative in your head is simply NOT ENOUGH.  You gotta get it out and into a tangible form or it's less than worthless daydreaming. 


You are not the judge of your brilliance. The world around you is. Its a case now of  "Put up or Shut up."
2012/12/28 10:54:55
SteveStrummerUK
 
Matt, daft as it sounds, have you considered paying a musician or composer to help translate and arrange your ideas into reality?
 
Other than the melody, I don't know how many parts of a score you can imagine at once, but even if you sat down with someone at a piano and maybe just hummed the basics to them, you'd be able to hear a composition taking shape more clearly.
2012/12/28 11:03:29
Beepster
He was trying to get one of us to do it for free. He also says he has a musical friend that might help.

But he needs to refine the ideas a bit more. If he at least got his melody and structure in order a good musician should be able to fill in the rest. As it stands what he has posted so far would be very difficult to work with. That's why I tried to get him to learn about the modes of C Major. He should be able to get something more coherent from there just using the white keys on his controller which an accomplished musician could then work with.

Dude doesn't need to have the skill of Mozart but he's gotta get a little bit of experience and understanding to get started. I know there is a structure there but his vocal stuff is indecipherable and the MIDI version is extremely dissonant/out of time... and not in a good way.
2012/12/28 11:08:33
jamesg1213
I'm not sure harmonica is going to be the best place to start. Until you become reasonably proficient it's a hideous noise. I'd stick with keyboards, at least the notes are already 'there'.
2012/12/28 13:08:55
bapu
MattMVS7


bapu



What is musical talent in this given situation?



Simple answer: There is none.

Now feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this, but talent is something you're good at.  So if a person is good at being creative in their head, wouldn't he/she be talented at being creative?  Again, this is a musical topic I made completely different from what most musical topics would be (a good philosophical-like question).  This is not a technical musical topic.  Also, regardless of ones status (in this case, producers who have dedicated their lives in making music), everyone is different and has their own issues/questions/situations in life, and everyone should feel free no matter what experience level they have in music, in asking any question or engaging in what is intended to be a pleasant conversation involving positive mannered reasonings--not negative arguments (positive reasonings are what I'm making--there is no intended negativity in any of my posts towards others).







2012/12/28 13:17:17
drewfx1
mike_mccue
This can be a deep subject if you want it to be...  

What is talent? Is it some innate ability you are born with? 

Is talent "nature", or is talent the result of outside influence, education, and awareness ? 

Is talent "nurtured" rather than the result of some spontaneous natural force?

Are you implying it has to be one or the other?
Are these songs you hear in your head your absolute and original creations or are they amalgamations and mash ups of everything you have already heard?

In almost all cases, people are largely repeating, rearranging and producing variations on what they have heard and are familiar with, particularly people with limited backgrounds who might not even realize they are using the same chords/scales/rhythms/progressions over and over again. If one spends some time listening to a variety of music from outside the traditional/common/normal/popular genres in their milieu they will likely realize how much we limit ourselves. Note that this is not necessarily a bad thing. If you are an artist attempting to work in a given genre, you are somewhat limited by the rules of that genre - otherwise your audience might start calling you Judas (which may or may not suit you ). 

Do you have the skill to recognize the difference in thoughts that you synthesize and create with your own mind and thoughts that are merely a realization of ideas that have entered your brain from various external influences?

Do you need a skill to make that decision? Or can you just be naturally talented at recognizing talent?

You can easily create a circular definition here - "I am talented at doing what I do". Well duh, of course you are! But one cannot really claim they have a talent for creating "popular" music/art without ever exposing their creations to the public. People sometimes play with semantics in a discussion to get the results they want - use a vague definition of "talent" here and a more specific one there and pretend they are the same.

When people stop and state something like "that person has a talent for that", what do you think they mean? What is it that they recognize as talent? Do they actually recognize that talent or are they acknowledging a symptom of something they call "talent"?

dictionary can sometimes come in handy.

For example; Is it possible to consider someone as a talented cook without ever viewing, smelling or tasting some of the food they cooked? 

You could consider someone based on reputation. But how you evaluate "talent" would depend on your standards. Is someone a talented cook if they create unique and unusual food you personally don't happen to enjoy? This is a question of the criteria used for evaluation more than "talent" itself.

Have you ever looked at a total stranger... someone you were wholly unfamiliar with and sensed that they were imbued with "talent"?

Pretending we can "sense" something we don't/can't sense sounds like it's either a trick question or someone confusing one's self.

It's hard for a person, such as myself, to consider your  theory that one may have an instinctive knowledge that they possess some natural talent.   


Why not? The trick is the semantical game - "I have a talent for imagining music that I believe is superior based on my own subjective standards" is not the same as saying, "I have a talent for imagining music that meets some external standards - perhaps just popular appeal, perhaps some other unspoken standard". But if you have an objective criteria and a clear understanding of that objective criteria used for evaluation, then you could make such a determination (if you are honest with yourself).

If you focus on the criteria for evaluation, the question becomes much simpler: "Do I have some special ability in meeting these specific criteria?". In some cases the criteria are clear, but if they aren't, and if a person can't articulate them, it becomes difficult to make an evaluation. Testing popular appeal sort of requires putting something before the public, but personal subjective determinations risk the circular argument: "I am talented in doing what I do".
2012/12/28 13:21:51
FastBikerBoy
You can be as talented as you want......... I have untalented fully sewn up though so keep your hands off that claim. Thank you.
2012/12/28 13:46:18
SteveStrummerUK
Beepster


He was trying to get one of us to do it for free. He also says he has a musical friend that might help.

 
Thanks Beepster. I was a bit late to this thread so I only read the OP and did a quick scan through the rest of it.
 
 
2012/12/28 14:06:57
yorolpal
Sounds like it would take something on the order of a "vulcan mind-meld" to make it happen.  And that there might scar ya fer life!!
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