I assume there are a number of places to do it online. Somewhere that I can just send a master CD and for a given amount (hopefully, oh, $1.00 each? Possibly up to $5?) they'll burn a whole bunch of them and mail them back. What are the options and what's included in the price?

I've been burning them myself at home, and, while I don't mind, I'm looking for something a little more professional/a little less work.

I'm thinking they'll be presents for friends, etc.

Thanks,

Sam

I assume you're asking this because you don't have a replicator in your neck of the woods?

If you check Discmakers or www.productionpro.com you will get examples of duplication costs and options. Just an observation though - at 500 pieces you're going to be very close in price to what you could get with a glass-master replicated disc which would include booklets, cases, etc. If you're going to spend that kind of money, consider moving up to a replicated disc. Just a suggestion. It pays to shop around.

Sam - you must have a lot of friends

If you have someone local to go to I would personally recommend that approach: faster turnaround, someone you can talk to before and after the sale, etc. You didn't mention it, so I don't know if you just want CD duplication or if you want the whole package. In either case, you should be aware that what you'll be getting for a 'short run' is just CD-R duplication. I think there's quite a few places that can do just the CD for about $1 or less per CD, but then you still have to package it. If all your doing is stuffing a disk in a sleeve, then that's probably good enough. If you plan on selling it, you need to go with a larger package. There's a lot of options out there, but the main thing to remember is these people are out to make money, so be sure and check everything your signing up for. You can end up paying for stuff that you hadn't planned on. For example, you'll see a lot of places that will take your finished artwork and make the insert for you. What you might miss is that if they have to alter your artwork in anyway, you're gonna pay for it, in addition to any other fixed fees. Unless you've already got your bar code, that's where most of the 'alterations' are made. In general its worth the money they charge, but if you weren't aware there would be that charge it can be a bit of a surprise.

A 500 disc commerical run will cost anywhere from $700-$1000. What's included in the price? Printing a tray card (usually 4 color) and a 4 panel (1 fold) insert, also usually 4 color. Most places only give you monochrome CD label printed directly to the disc, and of course, the CD-R itself. A jewel case and shrinkwrap complete the package. The turnaround on this kind of job is usually a couple of days (if done with someone local) to a week or more (if you have to mail things off).

Options range from complete artwork design, larger inserts (up to 6 or 8 panel is still relatively cheap, but after that it gets pretty expensive, because then they become booklets that need assembly and stapling), color on-disc printing, bar-code assignment and online registration (usually CDDB).

Most places only do full color on-disc printing if you have a glass master made, which usually only happens if you want a run of at least 1000 copies. You also get a better quality of disc as a result (and the overall packaging is higher quality too). One thing to remember about that is turn around for these kind of jobs is usually a week minimum since most places you'll find locally have to ship your project somewhere else to get it completed.

BTW - the turnaround times I'm mentioning assume you have no glitches with the artwork or the production.

Sorry for being so long-winded - hope at least some of the info is helpful to you and not just a bunch of wild rambling - good luck with the project

ORIGINAL: krizrox

- at 500 pieces you're going to be very close in price to what you could get with a glass-master replicated disc which would include booklets, cases, etc. If you're going to spend that kind of money, consider moving up to a replicated disc.

Well, you certainly lost me there. You're talking to a guy who just recently found out that Mp3's at 128 are not "CD quality" (I always thought they were!). So, what's a "glass master" and a "replicated disc"? And, yes, they're for friends and family but I hope to sell a few as well, likely online, possibly in town, and wouldn't mind having a couple to send out as demos just for fun. . . $1000 investment doesn't scare me too much but I wouldn't want to spend much more.

And since I brought up the mp3 issue . . . I save all my music as WAV's at 44.1, right?

Thanks for all the help and advice both krizrox and serauk!

Sam

well I probably ought to let Larry answer this because he probably knows more about it than I do - but the main difference between duplicated and replicated is that a duplicated CD is just that: you take a CD and copy it a CD-R, just like you do at home, whereas a replicated disc is like the ones made by the major (and not-so-major) manufacturers... I'm not sure of the replication process details, but it yields a higher quality CD than CD-R technology does. Because of the extra expense of creating them, the usual price point is 1,000 CDs or more so that when you sell them you make a profit. Haven't done any recent research into it, but a couple of years ago a thousand CDs retail ready ran about $2,000 up... once the glass master is made subsequent runs were cheaper.... I've heard there are places doing it for a lot less, but can't verify - Larry?

And don't worry - my first CD I sent MP3s to the production guys... after they finished laughing they set me straight... I'm a musician, not an audio engineer (although I'm learning from sheer necessity!!!)

Yeah sometimes we get all caught up with fancy words and syntax.

Duplication is the formal term for making copies on plain ol' CD-R discs.

Replication refers to the commercial CD's which are basically stamped from a mold (commonly refered to as a glass-master). The process used to create a replicated CD is quite involved which is why most places typically only quote runs of a thousand pieces or more (although I have seen some places quoting runs of 500 - check around).

Most of the replicating places I'm aware of charge somewhere's in the neighborhood of $1 - $1.50 per disc (assuming a thousand piece order) and that usually includes the jewel case, 4 page color booklet, tray liner (the card behind the CD tray), silkscreened image on the CD itself, UPC bar code and shrink-wrapped (or probably more accurately called "overwrap"). If you're paying more than that you're either getting ripped off or you are paying for some additional artwork or multi-page booklet insert. The books can be the most expensive part of the puzzle depending on how many pages you want and the amount of artwork setup.

Pricing can vary wildly. It pays to read the fine print as some companies tend to hide the options and then spring that all on you at the last minute.

Duplication costs can vary too. Some companies will print color on the top of the CD's - some won't. You have to check or call and ask but the cost to duplicate can run from a buck up to $4 each depending on the quantity and the other options. That's why I said if you're considering a 500 piece run, think carefully. It might actually be cheaper to order a thousand pieces of a replicated glass-master CD (which is the preferred type of CD to have). CD-R's aren't as robust as a commercial CD. It's just something to consider. The real question is: can you move a thousand pieces? That's a lot of product to be sitting on.

Discmakers is probably one of the more expensive places to go but their quality is top notch. Also look at Oasis. They are good too. But I think if you search around the web, you'll find lot's of companies and prices and options. I tend to prefer to deal with companies with a proven track record. Too many things can go wrong in the process.

Oh, by the way - Discmakers (much to my surprise) allows you to send in MP3's for replication/duplication. It's hidden somewhere on their website but you just upload the MP3's and place the order. I guess they figured it was a good option if you needed something quick and weren't overly concerned about the sound quality. A well-made MP3 doesn't have to be terrible and I'll bet the average listener probably wouldn't even know the difference

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Great information, thanks so much. And, yes, the question truly is "What the heck am I going to do with the 800 after I give away 190 and sell 10?" I don't know the answer to that question. But much of what you've said makes sense to me, as even I have noticed that CD-R's don't hold up as well as professional CD's. . . .

Hmm. . . . Part of the equation is (1) how aggressive do I want to market these babies (not very, really, perhaps a web site with samples of my music) and (2) how much demand is there for quiet, New Age type piano music (Is there any at all?). Perhaps I should burn them at home (at first), make a web site, try to sell some, and if it really starts to "take off" and I get a lot of demand then make a run of them. And if it doesn't take off, well, then, I'll just have saved myself a grand and a fair bit of headache (not to mention the embarassment of having 800 of these suckers laying around the house).

Thanks, I still welcome any comments/advice but have learned a lot from this thread already, the style of music I'm talking about (should you care) is here:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=440467

Sam

I checked out your tunes and they are simply great. Very relaxing, great musicianship. 1000 cd's is alot to start off with without some sort of plan though. If it isnt being heard then it isnt being sold. Wich brings us to marketing, advertising, finding your target audience and connecting with them. There is a limitless amount of info written about how to do this, but I think different things work for different people. Most people either A, get signed to a label that will support them (ie, market/advertise) or, B, spend your own $$ to put your stuff out there anywhere and everywhere you can. I think you have the right idea of starting off burning your own and see where it takes you. If the demand takes off the supply is easy to come by.

I had a guy that wanted to buy 120 copies of a cd I am workin on, but it isnt anywhere near finished. If it were though, I probably would have gone to a local studio around here and had them burn 150 or 200 and sent them to him. When you start getting chain stores or online retailers calling you for copies then its time to anti up. Just my two sense.
Good luck to you!

ORIGINAL: samhoff

Great information, thanks so much. And, yes, the question truly is "What the heck am I going to do with the 800 after I give away 190 and sell 10?"

Exactly the problem. I've lost count how many bands went that route only to break up 6 months later. Now someone has a bunch of expensive beer coasters sitting in the basement

You're right, Larry, that's the real question. Not "how do I make 500 copies" but "how do I get rid of 500 copies" - one of my (ex)bandmates still has about 200 copies of our album made when we were 'the next big thing' right before our main guy moved to Dallas... We had made 100 on the cheap (duplication from one place, card/insert printing somewhere else, we bought the jewel cases and assembled it all ourselves) and sold them all the next 2 gigs. So we 'splurged': still no glass master, but 500 copies already assembled and wrapped... And we sold an average of 50 per gig... we were actually considering sending it out somwhere for a full run when he told us 'oh by the way this is my last gig'... wasn't quite that bad but sounded like it...