2017/12/11 20:12:29
danevaz
BIAB has its own core set of bugs, non-functioning features, and outdated/stale code.  Not a good match.
2017/12/11 21:46:08
mudgel
Too much damage done to the Cakewalk brand since dev stopped on Nov 17. Add to that whatever issues lead to it being shut down in the first place. I don’t thnk anyone in their right mind would buy it. Putting aside any sentimental notions regarding Sonar it’s just not a viable business proposition any more. Let’s face we don’t really know what has been going on inside Cakewalk. Our best guess is just that; a guess. Wish it was otherwise, but it is over for Cakewalk.
2017/12/11 22:30:37
chuckebaby
Who in their right mind would buy a company that owes 1000's of users life time updates ?
That is why I believe Sonar will not be purchased and revised.
 
They kicked themselves in the cans by offering LTU. It basically gave them no hope for a resale.
I can believe I thought it was a good idea at the time.
2017/12/11 22:51:09
anydmusic
Eric Mestre
It just occurred to me that the solution to the Cakewalk Sonar situation would be to have
Band in a Box purchase the software from Gibson.
 
BIAB had been highly successful since the DOS days and knows music software.
They have continued to grow and built excellent products.
They have excellent programmers and know the business inside and out.
They are a stable company.
Solution found!


PG Music already have a DAW plus a hybrid of BIAB and a DAW.

BIAB is successful but I don't think the others are RealBand is bundled with BIAB and Power Tracks is still on the web site but does not get much attention.

I think that PG Music will keep focusing on what made them famous and what they are good at, BIAB. Rescuing Sonar would be high risk for them so I doubt that they would seriously consider it.
2017/12/11 22:57:14
kitekrazy1
chuckebaby
Who in their right mind would buy a company that owes 1000's of users life time updates ?
That is why I believe Sonar will not be purchased and revised.
 
They kicked themselves in the cans by offering LTU. It basically gave them no hope for a resale.
I can believe I thought it was a good idea at the time.




 
 I think it being labeled as a subscription model hurt it more.  Most high end software like Sequoia, Avid Media Composer are subscription based along with Pro Tools has the industry standard label attached to it.
 
 Cakewalk was a large company and could be revived my a small group.  We have no idea how much the code is worth.  Gary Garritan bought the Gigastudio code from Tascam which he has never used.  I assume he is probably not a millionaire either. 
2017/12/11 23:11:54
marled
I have a lot of years of professional experience in coding and I know very well what it means to take over an old code made by others. You come very soon to the point that it is faster to write new code than to change the old one. But for that you really have to be able to understand the current code functionality.
 
On the other hand if I look at the versions and changes of Sonar in the last couple of years, I suppose that they have already replaced a lot of the old code. I doubt that otherwise it had been possible to have such a stable Sonar X3. I looked at a lot of other DAW's too and I found that Sonar is quite stable and fast compared to them (a couple of forum comments from users of other DAWs confirmed that!). Also the design of Sonar is in some areas much more straightforward compared to competitors.
 
I think the reason that Cakewalk failed was mostly a management failure. I have seen such problems in my career too, that good software died just because of wrong decisions and monkey business in the top.
 
The only aspects of Sonar itself that were a little bit of a problem are that it is more complex than others (caused by more versatility) and it takes a lot of know-how to use it efficiently. So it was crucial to support a simplified usage for beginners with a lot of help and tutorials. And it was visible that Cakewalk had understood that in the last year, but this was too late. Another point that was visible from outside was the fact that they dissipated their energies in too many areas, instead of finishing one thing after the other. They wasted a lot of energy in collaboration with other companies (plugins, hardware, sample libraries, ...). They tried to satisfy all kind of users at the same time (musicians, studios, composers, hobbyists, rock music production, elektro dance music production, ...), this was too much!
2017/12/11 23:33:46
35mm
PhilW
A load of code (several million lines?) is no good without the people who know how it works, how to install it, together with the infrastructure and support. Once that existing expertise has scattered it's all over.  The only viable solution could be for the developers to buy it and continue it (Gibson and Heritage, if you like) but I doubt there is a business case for a DAW that might have a loyal following but a poor market share. 


Perhaps you don't know much about programming? Code is modular. Sonar will be built on a framework with classes that interact with the framework and functions within those classes. Cakewalk devs come and go and a new dev fluent in C++ and skilled in DSP starting at Cake would soon get to grips with how it all fits together and would be able to get on and start coding in no time. Also, developers leave comments within their code to explain it to the next guy who has to work on it.
 
The framework would have been updated frequently. Many of the classes would have been updated when required. The old legacy code would be stuff that just works and may have some low priority bugs, but if it ain't broke why fix it?
 
So in short, if a company wanted to produce a DAW and could get their hands on an existing one, they could build a new framework and hook some of the old classes into it with little effort, saving themselves a whole lot of time and expense. Sonar will already contain functions and entire classes that the devs will have grabbed from open sources and pasted in there. That's how it works. Programmers always try not to repeat anything, so if something already exists and they can get hold of it, they do.
 
So it is not true that Sonar's code is worthless to anyone else or that only the bakers could possibly decipher it. It's not so far-fetched at all that someone would buy the codebase and for quite a lot of dosh too. We may never know because even if a lot of that code ended up in another DAW you probably wouldn't have any idea that you were using a DAW that had lots of Sonar code in it. It wouldn't be called Sonar and it wouldn't look anything like Sonar.
2017/12/11 23:42:34
LOSTinSWIRL
chuckebaby
Who in their right mind would buy a company that owes 1000's of users life time updates ?
That is why I believe Sonar will not be purchased and revised.
 
They kicked themselves in the cans by offering LTU. It basically gave them no hope for a resale.
I can believe I thought it was a good idea at the time.



I agree with you on this 100%. Nobody in there right mind would do this. I think it is done. I really hate the thought of learning a new DAW but I think it is in my near future. Also if there was a buyer we would have heard about it before now.  I was in a company that was bought out and was told straight up that we all had jobs. So people would not jump ship like they are doing with Cakewalk. My two cents worth. 
 
PS I also fell into the LTU offer.
2017/12/12 00:08:31
Ionian
PG Music has been successful because they haven't messed with what they're known for.  Their program has largely stayed the same, just with increased functionality.  They don't do anything to anger the user base (A Cakewalk specialty), and they just keep improving and working on the programs they've developed and coded.  There is absolutely no advantage to taking on someone else's problem.  It'd be a strain on their manpower and finances.  

They already have their own daw, sort of, and their own look.  

Sonar has long standing bugs that are most likely unfixable.  There's a reason the bakers refused to address any of them, even in posts.  They don't want to be pushed into a position where they had to admit they can't fix what they broke. 

Anyone smart enough to keep a company alive for as long as PG music has been, is smart enough to read between the lines that Sonar's code is compromised.  They'd be buying a lemon.
2017/12/12 01:48:04
bapu
This thread has so many "the only" solutions in it.
 
It's like the viability of Cakewalk has become the replacement debate for religion.
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