Sorry Mike...the "I can be right for me...you can be right for you" is pretty much a load of horse puckey.  Did Adam Lanza have it right?

Facts is facts. Everything else is misinterpretation and obfuscation. 


PS:  Also sorry for the TOS violation. 

I've been very hesitant to say much at all.
My reasoning is very sound.

At a time such as this when the worst imaginable
shakes our emotions to the bones it is very easy
to seek understanding and solutions to prevent such things.

For those that awake every day, try to live the day and retire
every night dealing with the horror it can be very hard dealing
with not only the loss and pain but everything...everything.

Every view, every opinion...not only by others but also the personal
thoughts and feelings.

There seems to me to be two very valuable thoughts or guidelines
to hang-on to.
The instinct of survival- it must take hold. It will be what salvages the things
in life to retain or gain any of the normality of life. To minimize the collateral damage.
Many families and friends may not survive such a loss. Mom and dad just can't continue as before.
They may be faced with the feelings that everything else in life has become worthless...the job, house,
car...their own existance.
Friends may drift not being able to live with the changes...run for their own survival.
Instinct to survive must kick-in so the process of learning to live
with the loss can begin.

When and if that begins it is then when all the things that people have said and done
may begin to be understood as best they can.
It is not an understanding of each of the so many "things" but of the one.
It is knowing or believing that everything said or done by others, whether or not if it
was taken as good or bad, is taken as them only doing or saying whatever they could and
with their best intentions.
It's the simple fact that the "normal" human is deeply hurt by it and would like to know that
we can succeed in preventing such horrible acts and results from happening. A common goal.

We may or may not be able to prevent every horrible thing that people do or say, but there is hope.
There is hope as long as we know that people care and are trying. I believe we are.

This thread is very disappointing. 

BTW... those Westboro Baptist dinks just announced they planned to picket the school. This is why society needs to get their politics and emotions back in check. We are ripping each other apart from the inside and it enables wastes of skin like that to prey on us.

Just stop.  

spacey


I've been very hesitant to say much at all.
My reasoning is very sound.

At a time such as this when the worst imaginable
shakes our emotions to the bones it is very easy
to seek understanding and solutions to prevent such things.

For those that awake every day, try to live the day and retire
every night dealing with the horror it can be very hard dealing
with not only the loss and pain but everything...everything.

Every view, every opinion...not only by others but also the personal
thoughts and feelings.

There seems to me to be two very valuable thoughts or guidelines
to hang-on to.
The instinct of survival- it must take hold. It will be what salvages the things
in life to retain or gain any of the normality of life. To minimize the collateral damage.
Many families and friends may not survive such a loss. Mom and dad just can't continue as before.
They may be faced with the feelings that everything else in life has become worthless...the job, house,
car...their own existance.
Friends may drift not being able to live with the changes...run for their own survival.
Instinct to survive must kick-in so the process of learning to live
with the loss can begin.

When and if that begins it is then when all the things that people have said and done
may begin to be understood as best they can.
It is not an understanding of each of the so many "things" but of the one.
It is knowing or believing that everything said or done by others, whether or not if it
was taken as good or bad, is taken as them only doing or saying whatever they could and
with their best intentions.
It's the simple fact that the "normal" human is deeply hurt by it and would like to know that
we can succeed in preventing such horrible acts and results from happening. A common goal.

We may or may not be able to prevent every horrible thing that people do or say, but there is hope.
There is hope as long as we know that people care and are trying. I believe we are.

I do to.
 
Thank you for sharing that.

Beepster


This thread is very disappointing. 

BTW... those Westboro Baptist dinks just announced they planned to picket the school. This is why society needs to get their politics and emotions back in check. We are ripping each other apart from the inside and it enables wastes of skin like that to prey on us.

Just stop.  

Personally I cannot wait for one of those sub-human scumbags to die so that we can picket their funeral. 


I let rage get the better of me and spat on one of them around 2004 or so as they picketed Ground Zero on the 9/11 anniversary with their "God Flies Buildings Into Planes To Punish Fags" signs. They were specifically picketing the victim's family members as they arrived for the memorial ceremony. Probably the wrong thing to do yes, and makes me "as bad as them" yada yada but then again I'm not going to cut myself up over it. Funny thing was I did it right in front of a cop and when I apologized to him he said "I saw nothing." 

Back to the thread...sort of... the shooter...   There's an old saying "You can't argue with a sick mind".

There is absolutely NO TELLING what was going through the mind of this obviously very mentally ill person.  I don't believe ANYone (other than possibly his anaylist, if he had one) will ever know what his trigger was, what his motive was, what in his personality drove him to commit such madness, what his REALITY was.

I honestly do not believe "leaving a legacy" of fame (or notoriety) ever entered his mind as he was shooting people.  I don't believe for a moment that he was concerned with media coverage.  WE as the survivors seem to more concerned with THAT. (Just watch the news...)  I don't think he even gave religion a second thought.

I personally know someone with a Personality Disorder (Narcissistic Personaility Disorder), and some of the things she says to be "reality" are so far from real reality, it makes me just stand in wonder, stupified, how someone can come to be in that condition and exist in our "normal" world.  But to her, what she percieves is REAL in her mind.  And the rage that comes out of that woman when something contradicts her vision of her "perfect self" is totally astounding!

This shooter surely had some personality disorder that made his reality radically different than yours and mine, and whatever it was that was disturbing him, he must have believed that the only way to resolve his issues was to kill innocent people.

Again, as mentioned before-  what is going on in our society that seems to be producing more and more people like the Newtown shooter?  (other than just the population increasing.)

My previous post lists some of the things which I believe have "desensitized" us in our modern day... and I think this is where we have to start looking.

My apologies if I've crossed the line (again).
 
I just don't like the idea that I should be told how to think.
 
I'm perfectly happy for religious people to believe what they want. But I don't want what they believe to have any influence whatsoever on the laws I have to obey, or to have their particular versions of biology and history taught as facts to my kids at school.
 
Why does this have to be so hard a principle to accept?
 
My kids can be taught morals, good social skills and a sense of what's right and wrong by me and their mum. And I'd hope that they have these ideals reinforced and expanded upon in a secular education system, while all the time they are learning science and history that is based on years of accumulated and accepted knowledge.
 
This whole "science in the classroom/decades of misinformation/indoctrination" thing (I'm sorry, but if this wasn't so ridiculous and sad it would be laughable) does make me wonder though - what do you believe is 'real'. For example, do you belive that there are trillions of bacteria living symbiotically in your gut? You've probably never seen them and I'm pretty certain they don't get a mention in the good book. So if you do believe they are there, then why do you believe this? Do you believe that matter is made up of  atoms, protons, neutrons, electrons, quarks and any number of other sub-atomic particles? I can guarantee that you've never seen these things in isolation (nobody has ever seen them directly) and I can be sure that they don't get a mention in the bible. So if you believe this, why do you believe it? How about the planets and the stars, the nebulae and the galaxies. You get my point.
 
And I'm sorry, but I just don't get the 'prayers for the victims' families' thing in this thread. Although I have read a considerable amount about religion over the years, I must still be incredibly naive. You see, it is my view when one prays for a certain event or an outcome, they must be convinced that there is a chance that their deity of choice will answer that prayer. In other words, that their god will somehow act or intervene, even if only in a very small way, in the 'normal' day to day running of life on this planet. Surely, I would argue, if you don't expect an intervention, then prayer is a waste of time? Well, so far so good, but what I cannot grasp for the life of me is why an intervening and loving god, who sees and hears everything, doesn't do something before an atrocity like the one we are discussing? Or why don't we pray for all these poor children to be brought back to life? The devout are convinced that this happened on a number of occasions around the time the bible was written.
 
In the context of the universe as a whole, the human race inhabits an almost infinitessimally small part of it. And we've been around for an insignificantly short amount of time since it started. But we are a selfish, self-important and narcissistic species. We'd like to believe that we are so special that the whole purpose of everything we see in this mindboggling enormous universe was created for the sole purpose of 'testing' our suitablility to 'live' somewhere nice after we die. Really?
 
As I say, that's fine with me if you want to think that. But please don't presume to tell me that I have to.
 
 
 
 
 
 

tbosco


Back to the thread...sort of... the shooter...   There's an old saying "You can't argue with a sick mind".

There is absolutely NO TELLING what was going through the mind of this obviously very mentally ill person.  I don't believe ANYone (other than possibly his anaylist, if he had one) will ever know what his trigger was, what his motive was, what in his personality drove him to commit such madness, what his REALITY was.

I honestly do not believe "leaving a legacy" of fame (or notoriety) ever entered his mind as he was shooting people.  I don't believe for a moment that he was concerned with media coverage.  WE as the survivors seem to more concerned with THAT. (Just watch the news...)  I don't think he even gave religion a second thought.

I personally know someone with a Personality Disorder (Narcissistic Personaility Disorder), and some of the things she says to be "reality" are so far from real reality, it makes me just stand in wonder, stupified, how someone can come to be in that condition and exist in our "normal" world.  But to her, what she percieves is REAL in her mind.  And the rage that comes out of that woman when something contradicts her vision of her "perfect self" is totally astounding!

This shooter surely had some personality disorder that made his reality radically different than yours and mine, and whatever it was that was disturbing him, he must have believed that the only way to resolve his issues was to kill innocent people.

Again, as mentioned before-  what is going on in our society that seems to be producing more and more people like the Newtown shooter?  (other than just the population increasing.)

My previous post lists some of the things which I believe have "desensitized" us in our modern day... and I think this is where we have to start looking.

 
 
Some good points here Tony, and it got me thinking...
 
I used to sit next to a certain guy in Chemistry A-Level classes at school. A nice guy, a bit quiet maybe, and a more inoffensive chap you'd be hard put to find.
 
For some reason though, this guy was a bully magnet. I didn't know much about him until we were placed in this particular sixth form group together, but apparently in his younger years at the school he'd been tormented incessantly by quite a few of his contemporaries. And the more he was bullied, the more introverted and socially awkward he had become. Poor bugger really went through it for years.
 
A few years after we left school, I read in the local newspaper that the guy had just flipped one day and murdered two members of his immediate family. It seems a pretty good bet that his years of suffering at the hands of his tormentors was a contributing factor in his irrational behaviour that day.
 
Sad business all round really.
 
 
 
 
 

Why can't we just accept others opinions.
 
Why do we question someone else's post? Why do some of us take it as an afront?
 
We all have our own set of beliefs; Everyone of us is opinionated and these opinions are based on the roads we have walked down.
 
Accept mine; I'll accept yours. Very simple.
 
I don't know if Steve S. has stepped over the TOS but if everyone of us articulated ourselves with the grace he has shown on this thread there wouldn't be a problem.

yorolpal


Sorry Mike...the "I can be right for me...you can be right for you" is pretty much a load of horse puckey.  Did Adam Lanza have it right?

Facts is facts. Everything else is misinterpretation and obfuscation. 


PS:  Also sorry for the TOS violation. 

Well lookie here... what we have here is a powerful example of someone trying to impose their "right" on someone else.

I can see you've taken my statement and placed it in a context that I never imagined and it seems that you have done so as to make it possible to argue with your very own interpretation. How you choose to interpret my statement is your choice... it is your "right". 

I'm not even sure what to make of them other statements. Like, are you really asking me if I have something to say about Adam Lanza?

You can't trick this ol horse into a rodeo ring with your rhetorical sugar cubes.


ya'll the best,
mike