The very nature of this shooting; killing spree and for a family to lose a child/children, family member(s) or friend(s) in this way is extremely unsettling and will remain in memory that will haunt forever.  This is cause for concern for all.  I can't even begin to put in words to describe 'feelings' of how hard this hits. :( 

As for the murderer; obviously anyone who does this sort of crime must be mentally ill to do such a hideous crime. 

Public Awareness and Report System:
Mental health care is most likely held back by the stigma that surrounds people who suffer from a mental disability or any disability and for anyone deem unfit to participate in the workplace who then receives usually inadequate entitlements; entitlements should never to be coined as; hand-outs or for free loaders; unfortunately 'stigma' along with discrimination and prejudice is common in all countries; 

That said; clearly there needs to be; (1) education in regards to (2) public awareness of the seriousness of this and (3) report system; a hot-line for people to report any suspect behavior to mental health carers. There are tell-tale signs that experts can list for people to be aware and report. 

Point is; we need to catch it (them) before it leads to another shooting incident where innocent children, women and men are killed. 

Australia is a perfect example of very strict 'gun laws' most likely the most strictest laws in the world but still unfortunately does not work to prevent shootings; killings, read this news article {doh} for more than 10 years they've been talking about fixing the problem but if anything it's gotten worse;   

I can rightfully give a true indication of what it's like living in Sydney (scary). I lived there for most of my life, just about every freaking night I hear gun shots. Just about every week another shooting incident. Police would randomly setup road checks to search for weapons. 

Mental health care and the stigma that surrounds people with disabilities and who receive 'entitlements' (support) is appalling, a lot of these people live in hardship; 

IMO mental health issues such as; depression, stress and hardship can lead 'some' to very aggressive; violent behavior.  

When that hardship snaps; BANG we have another murder suicide incident!! As for what motivated (caused) that incident in CT; I hope there is an answer (and to confirm), we need to better understand and put in place preventative measures, and even if it wasn't 100 percent effective, at least it should reduce the incident of such crimes and save lives. 

There also needs to be better security systems in check such as; airport style security check at the gate (entrances) sure it's a hassle and seems excessive and costly but I'm OK that, at least have walk-thru 'scanning' for metals; weapons. These security measures need to be at all schools and other places such as social events. 

jamesyoyo


Simply put, crazy is crazy. And this is crazy turned evil, an awful turn of events. There are no larger points to be made about society, culture, gun rights, etc. 

James I disagree with your statement of "crazy is crazy." I have had a wife who has suffered off and on from depression and a daughter who has been diagnosed as bi-polar. I don't expect either to go out and kill a classroom of children. Either would find it unconscionable. 


Both are forms of mental illness which does not make them "crazy." They are conditions that affect how they feel and affects their ability to function as normal people in day to day situations when they have an onset of their respective conditions. Both wife and daughter take their meds when they should but at times they think they don't need them anymore because they think they are ok.


It will be weeks before we really find out what this young adult was suffering from and maybe get a small glimpse or guess of why he decided to do the things he did this morning. But chances are we will never know the real reason why. The only thing we can do is explain to our children and grandchildren that occasionally people do evil things to other people. And to let them know they are loved.


That is all that can be done till the authorities figure this all out. if they ever do at all.

Doc_Hollingsworth

jamesyoyo


Simply put, crazy is crazy. And this is crazy turned evil, an awful turn of events. There are no larger points to be made about society, culture, gun rights, etc. 

James I disagree with your statement of "crazy is crazy." I have had a wife who has suffered off and on from depression and a daughter who has been diagnosed as bi-polar. I don't expect either to go out and kill a classroom of children. Either would find it unconscionable. 


Both are forms of mental illness which does not make them "crazy." They are conditions that affect how they feel and affects their ability to function as normal people in day to day situations when they have an onset of their respective conditions. Both wife and daughter take their meds when they should but at times they think they don't need them anymore because they think they are ok.

I don't think you could be more wrong, Doc. Suffering from mental illness does not make you crazy; acting crazy is what makes you bona fide crazy. And this monster's mental illness+crazy+evil equals the CT tragedy.

At this point, "medical science," can not determine a, "reason why," because we do not understand the human brain like that.  Unfortunately, all we can do is, "wonder why," human beings can become so enraged like that.

jbow


This guy got up this morning and shot him mother in the face then went to her school and executed the kids in her class. That is VERY personal. I do not pertend to understand it but I know enough to realize that his actions were totally against his mother an everything she loved... he really wanted to hurt her, even after she was dead. There is something much deeper here than any society, culture, music, gun, or game. There was something deep and dark in him regarding his mother.

We will learn more in the next days.

J

You're probably right, but nobody asks about family issues unless the perpetrators are just being brats - aka - no need to be packing heat; yet, I heard that he got his mother during an argument. Which not only touches the family dynamic, but the domestic abuse argument as well. That player for the Chiefs who also took his life and his girlfriend's over an argument and this happened not even a month ago.

But yes, the family issue is only talked about during legal/domestic disputes or when dealing with wayward children/teenagers and unfortunately, young adults. However, you do see how all the stuff on top of the supposed contempt for his mother fits as well. As I said though, with how that is thrown around in the media, but due to it existing in reality. I mean, everybody and his/her mama (no offense) has to be psycho-analyzed. 

Everyone has issues, but like you said, if his issues stemmed from something his mother did to him/not do for him, that's one thing, but as often as parents say: "Don't be afraid to come to me for anything," they may now say: "I'm afraid to come to you for anything!" Ironically, perhaps they were afraid to come to you fearing you might go off. (Hopefully, not like the shooter did killing his mother)

It's also said that people are products of their environment. Sure, everyone spoke nice of his mother (of course they are when she's dead); however, no one knows what went on at home (this goes beyond the argument that did her in). She could have been just as violent as he was - her occupation in society means nothing as its just a front really. So, perhaps she had deep-seeded issues with her son? An argument goes two ways and the same thing always occurs - catch the one retaliating! I bet if she were alive, they'd offer the usual "family counseling."

Again, I agree that it goes deeper than the small issues folks tend to cite often, but there's this societial idea that families don't have problems or they do, but will work them out. Unfortunately, solving such is done in the worst way possible. So, yeah, he really wanted to oust his mother, but who's to say she didn't wanna oust him? And this goes back to my previous point regarding the gender wars. (Leaving the kids out of this) If he had shot his father, it'd come off as "Oh, he was really wrong, but this is how men solve problems!" and yet the shooter was a guy - only made worse because he shot a woman - yes, his mother, but a woman.

It's that damn "Women and children" first statement! I'm talking generalities not specifics because clearly what happened in CT as well as CO, VA, OR and who knows where else is awful. Ironically, the over-sensationalized case regarding the Anthonys and you heard the same stuff there, too. "They have/had a very strained relationship and perhaps before their child/grandchild died! So, was this heinous act in retaliation?" Oh, the months we had to endure!

Both times we had the raging factor: children. If in the Anthony saga, her child was 26 and not 6 (would've been when she died), no one would give a rat's behind! If "Mrs. CT Teacher" was teaching a class full of high-schoolers/college students (and we've had enough of those shootings as well), there'd be less rage; however, the older classes have parents whom in those above four shootings who've lost children. "No parent should have to deal with the loss of a child (death is not the point). Yes, but "no matter what the child's age," should be included in this statement as well.

Yet, the same stuff has been said about each of the shooters' personalities, demeanors, what they've been exposed to, but nothing about the family dynamic being the cause of what or how they acted. You mean to tell me that I need to shoot/kill a family member, so the family dynamic issue can be touched as I prefer not to act like a brat which is or should be considered normal. But again, if she were alive, she, as do most parents (and even in media) feel as if they have done wrong by their children if they turn out wayward, but this is after the fact. She'll never get the chance to regret if she did do something wrong, but neither will he.

I don't think one can separate family from society because either your family becomes your society or society becomes your family. Much like if the parents don't parent their children leaving that up to the media instead (who they ironically and erroneously) blame; yet, you hear where society (because it's shown in media) is telling the parents to do this. (ie: Parents who let their children run all over them and just say "Oh, well," and dare I say children who have deep-seeded issues and are out for blood or when children have more sense with the way they act/carry themselves/speak then their parents)

Families are screwed up these days and society has plenty to do with it. As you said. he got up thinking he'd kill his mother, but his is not the only "child-kills-parent(s)" case out there. The Dahlmer boys ate -- yes ate theirs, but of course anything to that extreme can certainly blamed on Hollywood. There was also the boy who killed and locked his parents in their bedroom, so he could party! I guess there was no "First Birthday" party for him, but are tons of murderous-holiday movies out there. Perhaps he liked them? No way could he have had issues with his parents. They've got tons of "Unsolved Mysteries" (Title and other likewise shows) about why people "Snap(ped)" and they have done recent events, too. Perhaps this event will be included?

You still don't see how all the above couldn't or didn't contribute to him thinking and doing what he did? Maybe his mother was the root of the problem. What I wanna know is didn't she know or at least sense something was wrong or even acknowledge that he may have been the root of her problem? You know how America loves to swim up and down Denial River!

As I've said before, some methods people use to solve problems are deplorable which is why the uproar regarding the gun laws (and yes, I know there are other means to kill; I've seen plenty of movies); however, this won't solve the problem. It'll just lead to more regs and regs until nothing is allowed to be used. It's like the "political-correctness" garbage - only with objects while it still exists with words.

I thought and still think the whole "What about the children!" cry is garbage because it's taught they have to be shielded from everything and they do not nor should they be! However, after something like this while I haven't changed my mind, I think they do need to be exposed to what we see as adults. I'm shocked there was no uproar when they interviewed the children there and they had more poise than the adults and I'm definitely sure they were scared out of their wits.

As for the issue between Mother and Son, problem solved! It's ashame. but what else can I or anyone else say or do? Yeah, we'll learn more, but it won't surprise me if the same tired reasoning is spewed on top of your "Hatred For Mother Dearest" thought (I think you're right) as people do tend to pull from the top. This is not Jenga! Again, all anybody can do is speculate and assume including the shooter's brother. Maybe his reasoning will be similar to yours, but again if the "broken home" is no reason for someone to act out, then "Hating Family Member Dearest" is no reason either. His mother was just as undeserving of her death as those children and six other adults were, but hey, his mother could defend herself. If so, why is she dead? Everybody heard "teacher" and felt bad because of the children. Had he shot just her, you'd get the "usual" story (which of course, would be alot less unsettling for alot of people)

I actually feel worse for the mother because I've lost a parent, grandparent and great-grandparent; yet, to have a child/grand/great-grand -- no matter what age -- is just as unthinkable and deplorable. As it relates to the gender wars: children are to women as adults are to men. Adults kill adults, that's just their nature, but adults don't kill children! Children most certainly don't kill adults! That's a lie in both senses. This makes me wanna call Mom and tell her I love her (and I'm 30) which is what needs to be told and more importantly shown to the children more as well as the parents, but especially the children after this happened, even if you have issues with them.

Be sure to keep your eye on your wife and child Doc.  Your assessment is, unfortunately, not entirely accurate.  I've had to deal with both my father (manic depressive and bi-polar) as well as a business partner (bi-polar plus some other, as yet unidentified, issues) and their chemical imbalances.  My dad was very religious and wouldn't hurt a soul normally, but he also had temporal lobe epilepsy which caused seizures and that, combined with the above, caused him to be a completely different person during those periods of time.  He always felt very ashamed when he was informed of his behavior afterwards (which he did not remember).  My business partner is normally a very pleasant person who also considers himself very religious however, when he goes off, anyone could easily see the potential is there for truly bad things to happen.  Plus, when the pendulum swings the other way, he gets overly depressed.  For a long time he didn't believe anyone who told him he had a problem, but he's finally starting to come around.

Yes, the people you know may NEVER do anything that endangers the lives of others, but when those brain chemicals get out of balance, they really are a different person.  I've never met anyone with these conditions that didn't think they should be off their medication from time to time.  It makes sense though since 80% of the time they're pretty normal, it's the 10% at each end that's the issue.

I wish you all the luck I can in your battles to come.  They will be trying, but your family will need your support. 

yorolpal-  You asked the next very logical question-  What determines people's behavior?  Very good question IMO.

There will be many answers.  And many books have been written about the subject!  LOL

You can bet your boots there is a multitude of "influencing factors" on our behaviors.  If people don't think that Mike, that cool Ford TV commercial guy, doesn't sway people's behavior to buy Fords by continually popping up on our TV screens every hour, you might want to talk to the Ford Advertising department...I'm sure they think differently.  ;-)

And we haven't even mentioned chemical imbalances in peoples' brains that can influence behavior.....

(Even though I was a mechanical engineer in school/occupation, I enjoyed and studied a little psychology along the way.... probably just enough to be dangerous....LOL   It is very interesting.)

Doc_Hollingsworth


I think some of you have already touched on this. 

It isn't just American culture that has seen this errant and tragic behavior. Unfortunately this is the second shooting in a weeks time (Clackamas Town Center Mall, Portland area), the third high profile shooting (Aurora, Colorado) by young men in their 20's this year in America.
This is not a recent problem in the US we have mass killings of innocents going back well over a hundred years. The earliest accounted slaying of children in America dates back 1764, in Franklin County, Pennsylvania. And I am sure we can find similar incidents throughout history on multiple continents.


The fact is that these acts are perpetrated by sick individuals with no empathy for the grief they are causing. My heart goes out to the parents of those children lost and to the families of the adults who perished as well.

In a way, I'd agree. Most American's are utterly ignorant of true American history. What we're seeing here is a contemporary cultural issue though. It seems as though in the last 30+ years, there's been change in attitude such as people expect to express themselves, not necessarily a bad thing, but without any conscious though to it's import. You'll see this phenomena amplified as if through a magnify glass via politicians, they seem to key to these trends. Yesterday, more than a few godless devil-worshipping preachers pretending to be christians issued statements indicating that it was a lack of god in the classroom that causes this. Other politicos have issued statements demanding that guns be allowed in the classroom. I'm not sure whether to label such obtuseness evil, or stupid. Worse, some people are afraid to stand up to this because they might get labelled as someone who stifles ideas through 'political correctness'. I find, though, that those who complain about 'political correctness' are the ones who actually enrage in it, leading me to believe that the cry itself is only to stifle speech and action.


We have a problem with a trend toward cultural narcissim here.

 Well I got up this morning and it was there again. The media is covering every little detail about this. Am I the only one that is slightly annoyed that this looks like a ratings game? And maybe a convenient way to steer us away from what is happening on Capital hill?

 I am saddened by this whole thing. I guess I am judgemental in questioning the motives of the people who are bringing us the information and how much it is really helping the families of the innocent victims.

 I have thought about why something like this could happen or why these kinds of things are happening with more regularity around the world.

 I see it as a percentage thing. I know that sounds impersonal and maybe callous but I really believe this is the case. The answer is multi faceted.

 This has to do with a percentage of the outcome of a combination of changes in our society.

 Take single parent children for example- as a general rule children from a single parent home might struggle more than others do but they usually get through it and function in society. OTOH there is a small PERCENTAGE of children who are affected by it in a serious way that follows them the rest of their lives. Most kids who play video games know they are only games, but a few of them might be seriously influenced by these games and start to role play in a more substantial way.

 Most kids watching violent movies are not going to go out and shoot people but a small PERCENTAGE of these kids will act more violently as a result of watching these behaviors. Since younger kids don't know what is real yet, if they are exposed to things that seem real it might be desensitizing to them in a bad way.

 A tight economy brings about a lot of working parents who don't have as much time to spend with their kids. Some kids will fare better in this environment than others will. The notable disenchantment and disinterest from many 30 somethings and younger for anything relating to God and the religious structures in the past that were considered to be pillars of our society are changing. In some cases being legally squelched. Whatever your beliefs  it is a fact that this is foundational in a childs life and morally speaking it was a good thing. The movement away from these things and from a sense of what is right and wrong leads people to make up their own rules.

 The educational system now teaches children the theory that we came about over billions of years by nothing more than chance. A PERCENTAGE of these kids indoctrinated with this theory will think that they are merely animals who have no moral directive and therefore  free to invent their own set of rules or lack thereof. Most kids will comply with what is viewed as sane moral and safe but a PERCENTAGE of these kids might look at things differently.

 These are only a few  examples, but I think you see where I'm going with this. All of these little societal tweaks over the last 40 years are combining to bring about an increase in these types of behaviors and a desensitization to what was once atrocious and horrible. A percentage of the population will be affected by this more seriously . In my view an even larger portion of the population is still affected by these changes but they don't go out and kill people. They may be affected in other ways not as easily measured or seen.

 I don't blame the media entirely but I do hold them responsible. In this age of global connections they might be the only rudder steering the ship of thought for a vast number of people. Why do you think that some Governments want strict control over their media? For some young people the media world is the only place they get all of their information.Family is not there, in some cases the community support system is not there either.  So I think it is a combination of these things that aversley affects a small percentage.

 The homies in the hood have a ton of illegal guns and could easily shoot up anything or anyone they want to.They have a support system in place that prevents it unless their system deems it necessary. It might be a messed up system but its a family to them.The white males in their low 20s are missing that in many cases.

  

Starise

The homies in the hood have a ton of illegal guns and could easily shoot up anything or anyone they want to.They have a support system in place that prevents it unless their system deems it necessary. It might be a messed up system but its a family to them.The white males in their low 20s are missing that in many cases.

 

You're forgetting that the "homies in the hood" are actually six times more likely than the national average to die violently. Granted they don't tend to snap and plan mass shootings, but when you look at the numbers, the problem of "death by thug" is a much larger problem than these school shootings, which - despite the fact that they seem to be frequent - are actually statistical anomalies.
  These are neighborhoods in which parents cannot let their kids play in a playground without worrying about them getting caught in the crossfire of a gun battle between two homies who "dissed" each other in the street. 

I've lived in New York for a good many years now and I read about the senseless carnage that goes on in the hood every day. A dispute over a parking space, bang bang. A fight over some rap lyrics insulting someone, bang bang. Two guys brush shoulders in the street, bang bang. An argument over a dice game, the bullets are flying and one of them hits a little girl playing with her dolly. 

The extent of the everyday violence in America's inner cities is such that there would have to be 10 of these mass shootings every week to even come close to the number who are dying because of thug culture. 

The trouble is, because these killings don't happen all in the same place simultaneously, they're not a huge news event and nobody really cares.