MakeShift


My biggest problem with the sims and modeling amps, is that with all of the choices, I never seem to settle into a sound.  It is so easy to change everything that I just end up playing with the amp all night instead of playing guitar.

You say that like it's not what we're supposed to be doing?

Starise - even at 1 watt they can be pretty loud. Maybe not loud enough to play w/ a Scandinavian death metal band, but, by yourself, in a room, you definitely can get some serious volume out of those things. That being said, I'm kind of a loudness wuss - I pick clarity and detail over loudness every time.

The more I learn about recording and mixing, the more I can hear things upfront - stuff that I know will come back to haunt me when I start mixing. It's like my hearing is getting better all the time and it's becoming more and more obvious that capturing great distorted tones isn't as simple as it once seemed.

At this point, I'm starting to believe that you could fill the room w/ all the cool classic amps in the world, I'd almost always find something that doesn't work w/ them, a little something in their distortion that's nasty - a little fizz or buzz or resonance - that won't really bother me as a guitarist but which will stick out its ugly head the context of a mix. I know the Spider has plenty of those things, but it also has plenty of things which will work. So we'll focus on those.

Rain


...it's becoming more and more obvious that capturing great distorted tones isn't as simple as it once seemed. 

Now THAT'S the understatement of the year!  LOL!

The last studio session I provided some amps for was fun. All the amp heads were in the control room while the cabs sat in a big ISO room with an array of mikes. To me this was the best way to record tubes. They are loud and beautiful and have to be pushed to reveal the mojo. I really can't use amps in my apartment and that's where the convenience comes in with modelling.

At my last shop we had a live room for testing amps and P.A. It was the size of two basketball courts. Wood floors, wood ceilings 25' high. One day we slaved 4 Super Reverbs together and wound them up, what a wall of sound. Good times.

craigb

Rain


...it's becoming more and more obvious that capturing great distorted tones isn't as simple as it once seemed. 

Now THAT'S the understatement of the year!  LOL!

Well, it used to be - for me. ;) Just shove a 57 somewhere in front of the little Marshall 15 watt combo, press record, and play... 


Everything was going to tape, everything was distorted anyway, and the last thing I'd worry about is the subtle additional layer of distortion the mic added and so and so. 


Furthermore, I used to have some sort of disdain for those guys who'd agonize over details and spend hours wondering whether they should cut one or two db at 503hz and who had racks of effects and processors the size of a fridge. A guitar, a cable and a Marshall - it's all I needed. Or a Marshall and my old Bassman when things got fancier.


But like John puts it, unless you have the proper environment, it's always a compromise. Using tube amps and not being able to push them, thus sounding weak, or using sims and sounding digital/fake.


We're heading back to Canada for a week in January. One thing I'm looking forward to is to spend some time at my brother-in-law's studio. He's got a very nice Les Paul and a cool Marshall in there, with all the right mics and gear, and the proper room to record them. And I can certainly learn a few things from him.

MakeShift 


My biggest problem with the sims and modeling amps, is that with all of the choices, I never seem to settle into a sound.  It is so easy to change everything that I just end up playing with the amp all night instead of playing guitar. 

You say that like it's not what we're supposed to be doing? 

I did??    I was pretty sure I used the word "I".


Rain, as you have said, back in the day, you pretty much cranked up your Marshall and stuck a 57 in front of it to record.  You might have a few peddles to add in, but, you kind of found "your sound" and you went with it.  That's what I was trying to say. 


I've got most of the sims and several Line 6 products and I like them a lot.  I find them pretty usable for recording, especially for rhythm tracks that kind of sit in the back ground anyway.  I have had many people ask me what amp I was mic'ing to get tone in songs and were often surprised if I was to say I used POD Farm, or Guitar Rig, or what ever I might have used.  Sometimes though, it can be unproductive for me when I am trying to get a song done, because there are just sooooo many choices, that I start second guessing if I have the right tone for the song.  It's like, I always feel like I can find better tone that the amp model I am currently using.  Sometimes, it is just to many choices.  I find that I tend to make better decisions when I home in on which amps in each sim that I like the best and kind of find my tone with that amp.


I don't play with a lot of distortion though, so this might be completely different for some one else.  I tend to like my tube amp tones best for leads.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with spending an entire evening twiddling the knobs on sims, it can be fun to see what tones you can come up with.  When I am actually trying to get something done, however, they can sometimes bog me down, personally.

Notice...I said me.  

I know what you mean, Mike.

Man, I've just spent another 2 hours w/ this thing, this time using the amp's own speaker instead of the DI - though I also checked how the DI sounded in the studio monitors (much better than I expected, I can definitely get away w/ some of that stuff).

But using the actual speaker, it comes to life.

When it's time to record, I'm usually pretty good at falling into the pragmatic session player frame of mind, in that, I envision the whole thing as a craftsman more than as an "artist" trying to express himself w/ his tone. It's all secondary so, even if I'm not a Mesa Boogie type of guy, if the song calls for that, I'll oblige.

But what I had lost when I quit performing almost 15 years ago and settled in the studio is that fun factor and actually trying to have a less mechanical approach. To stop thinking in terms of patches and such. I didn't even refer to myself as a guitar player anymore, in fact I could go on for months w/o touching the instrument. 

Things started changing when our current project started moving from me writing songs for my wife to doing something that would require me to get more involved, adding my own twists and contribution and blending our influences and ideas. 

And when she offered me that new Les Paul last summer, it gave me the little kick in the butt I needed. It threw me out of my comfort zone, forced me to re-learn my instrument, to work on improving my technique and all.

So it's like there finally is a balance, and this new amp was the missing piece of the puzzle. 

Funnily enough, my wife just sent me a text message telling me she'd found this used Line 6 bass amp, asking if I thought it could be of any use in the studio. Did I tell you guys how much I love that woman? (Yeah, probably like a zillion times...)

Sounds like you're on a fun ride Rain!

@MakeShift - Ironically, I used to own a LOT of Line 6 gear and even did some beta testing for them, but now I'm down to only having Variax guts built into a custom guitar (that also has passive pickups) and I use three tube pre-amps (a VHT Valvulator GP3, a Peavey Rock Master loaded with NOS Mullards and a Mesa Boogie Rectifier Recording Preamp) into a tube stereo power amp (a VHT 2/50/2).  Oh well!

I think I needed an amp badly, after so long. I was looking around while we were waiting for our sales guy last night.

They had a POD XT, which I had considered a few weeks ago, thinking it'd probably be an improvement on my old POD 2. And the HD (bean), which was a better option - but I wasn't convinced that I wanted to put even more money on something that's still require me to rely on my audio interface and monitors. 

The HD 300 (floor) was practically the same price as the Spider, and the modeling is probably better, but, again, same issue.

Great for recording and learning stuff, but when jamming it would mysteriously disappear into the mix.

I bought my Line 6 Duoverb head to replace my old head which had crapped out on me. It was supposed to be MORE than powerful enough to do the job live. Damned thing just refused to cut through. Also the first and only time I brought it out live it started making horrible noises then just cut out completely. I thought it was toast. I borrowed another amp for the gig but I was really pissed. When I got home I hooked the Duoverb back up again and it was fine. Since then it has been delegated to recording which it's great for because of the two XLR outs on the back (one for each channel on the amp). Most of the models are pretty crappy but I can get a slick clean tone and toss stompboxes on it. I'm looking forward to trying it with all my fancy new amp sims and X2. It hasn't been touched for like three years because I didn't have room.

/CSB