Rain


Looks similar indeed. The one difference - no biggie - I see is is that you have to use the razor tool and enable crossfades, whereas in Logic you are automatically in comp mode by default, so no switching tools.

Another thing which may be different is that merely clicking can select. For example, say you've swiped/selected from bar 1 to 4 of the first take. Simply clicking the same region on another take will make that the selected/audible selection. 

So you can effectively chop up your track into short segments and audition each take of that segment w/ one click. It's "real-time" at it's best, imho.

Yeah, he manages to make it look a more clunky operation in the vid than is actually is when you are doing it cross fades are applied as default the tool above is just to adjust if required and clicking does select, you just select the razor for the 'swipes'.  I do all my audio takes and comping there now it's so simple an bullet proof which is how I like it at that end of a production.  The least interruption to any kind of flow there is best IMO.
 
I often use Sonar to mix it when I've got it though and the sequencing tool set in Sonar is still the most comprehensive of any of 'em.
 
I like S1 I can't fault it but it doesn't reach far enough somehow and I'll often come up against something that prevents me from getting it done so I revert back to my tried and trusted.  Reaper just gives me a headache again it's probably very good but it's design seems to have been derived by the committee of it's entire user base and I cannot for the life of me get my head round it.
 
So basically I get by with my two main tools Sonar and Reason, works for me as they so nicely cover the distinct areas I seem to operate in.

I know what you mean about S1 - as much as I love some things, on the midi side - which is crucial for me - it still lacks the features like advanced selection filters, which are an integral part of my workflow.

The one other thing which makes it hard for me to work in any other app, no matter how fully featured it is, is navigation, zooming and all.

I spent a night working w/ S1 one recently and suddenly I noticed a pain in my wrist I hadn't felt in ages - and I remembered how that pain was an integral part of my life in the studio before Logic, a few years ago. Even if I knew Sonar like the back of my hand and relied on keybindings heavily, there was still a lot of mouse usage involved.

W/ Logic, the trackpad functionality is integrated. Coupled w/ a few single key key commands, the speed at which you can move around in that GUI is insane.

Hey Ed, I sort of get forced into using Reap a few times a month. I have a client that records here and asks me to use it so he can take the project files home with him and he messes around with them and records little scratch track ideas that we wind up tracking for real when he comes back.

It's a pretty good program actually and definitely one I'd have no problems using if Sonar went down over here. Just make sure you do some research into the the schemes they have available for it. They can really make your visual experience 100% better. To be honest, I have always had a problem looking at it because it just looked so bad, (like PT) I couldn't get into it, ya know? But if you check out their themes page on their site, you can grab a few cool things and if you experiment a bit, you can come up with your own cool looks as you can do custom work on just about everything in the program. Even change mixing board looks which to me is sooo cool. This is the one I'm using now which is a hybrid of 2 different themes I mixed, match and experimented with. You may have seen me share this before.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4909348/Rconsole.JPG

As for the other one...Studio...I didn't get the 2.5 version, but I have 2 over here and think it's a really solid program too. Another I would use if Sonar went down. It's really good for suite mastering too. Sort of like an alternative from Wave Lab. The cool thing about it, it does DDP mastering exports which quite a few duplication houses are calling for these days since there is no need for a 1x audio burn. It just dumps all the right stuff into a folder including the PQ info...and off to the duplicator it goes. So that is super helpful. Another cool thing that blows me away is, it is constantly analyzing everything you do to a mastering project. If you were to delete a song and bring in a better version in its place, it brings it right in perfectly and updates the project automatically. Like you can just do a "replace" if you had another version of a song...and bang, it drops it right in to time perfectly.

The recording end is really cool too. Some nice features in it that you'll enjoy. I don't like neither of the programs better than Sonar for my particular use, but in my opinion, I'd choose them over Cubase, Nuendo, PT or Logic. Logic could be the bomb....if the learning curve wasn't so annoying. But yeah, you paid for them...you should try them out. It's always good to have a back-up that's for sure...or at least see how the other side lives. :) Good luck!

-Danny

S1 is pretty much my back up plan, if Apple fails me w/ Logic. To me, it's like somewhere between Sonar and Logic - minus the midi features of those 2. So I felt at home very quickly.

After a few sessions in Pro Tools and S1, I was back to my main app last night, recording guitars, and I realized how much I relied on another handy "feature" that's quite unique to Logic (I think) and that I'd hate to live w/o - the ability to record on any given track w/o arming it first.

May seem insignificant, but when I'm tracking guitars and overdubbing, it saves me a lot of time and mouse click and allows me to stay entirely focused on the guitar. Just move back and forth between the tracks w/ the arrow keys, press R and you're done. If I ever go back to Sonar, you can be sure that this will be one of my first feature requests. ;) 

Rain it is very possible to set Studio One to automatically arm tracks that you land on. You do not have to manually arm tracks at all. As for getting around the GUI I have been using a Kensington Track ball along with the mouse and it is quite interesting actually. Also if you set up your key commands correctly navigating around Studio One is just as fast as Logic. I have never had any pain. I can navigate around S1 at supersonic speeds without any issues.

That is the problem with switching programs. You will never really give the others a real test because you won't be using key commands in the other DAW's to their max advantage.

New Studio One features also include freezing multiple outputs of VST's all at once now and tracks can be set to record the outputs of any buss now which is also very cool.

I still find midi timing (external to hardware synths that is, not virtual VST's that is a different story) is superior to other DAW's and is NOT effected by how hard the audio side of the program is working. Also you can switch midi tracks on the fly (while looping) and record any data on tracks you land on. Something not all DAW's can do either (including Sonar) I agree the midi effects side of S1 could be a bit better but then again I have never needed it either. It has all the midi editing and features you actually ever need. If you can play a keyboard then it makes it all easier. Comping is brilliant too. Tempo changes and key transposing is fast and easy in this program too. 

The learning curve is actually fast and easy which goes to show how well written and designed it is. I find when I go back to Sonar (8.5 that is but I am sure X1 and X2 might be better for sure) it is clunky and hard. But it also depends how much time any of us spend in any DAW. There are plenty of Sonar and other DAW users out there who can navigate around in any program fast and easily. I have seen some pretty amazing PT users operate as well so it does depend how well one knows any program. It is basically about what you know. (Seth,Brandon and Karl and many of you for example are amazing Sonar users)

People make unfair and incorrect statements about other DAW's but in most cases it is usually because they still do not know it fully. For example Rain I am sure I know Studio One better than you because I have used it everyday for the last two years something you have not done. You will not reach that level of proficiency until you do the same. Using it here and there is not the same thing. (And even if you do use it a lot, it wont as much as I do) And likewise with Logic I see you as a very experienced Logic user whereas I don't use it that much. 

People make unfair and incorrect statements about other DAW's but in most cases it is usually because they still do not know it fully.

 
That's a generalization so is likely flawed from the start.
 
I was more fond of S1 at the beginning until I learned of its lack which didn't happen until I became very familiar with it.  I still like it for many tasks especially for generating song sections with VSTi's and via Rewire where as you say the midi timing and such is stunningly accurate.  I might even go to the full version for the mastering options which aren't in the pro version but that's a bit of a price jump just for that.
 
As many people that make incorrect statements some have very strong and well-defined requirements for their software and make sure they get the best fit for what they are doing and that is often based on deep experience. 
  
I hear a lot of garbage about Reason, people that might think it is lacking as a full-blown DAW are not making incorrect or unfair statements through lack of experience though.  It's no skin off my nose that people don't get the beautifully simple and functional tracking end of it, the flexibility it has for initiating arrangements, the strength if its rack full of samplers, fx, synths, drum machines, step sequencers et, al makes it one of the best sound design environments and project sketchpads out there as far as I'm concerned.  Rather I think merely because people have different requirements to mine are they less enthusiastic about it than me. That's all there is to it.
 
We are fortunate in that we are over catered for in out interest in doing music related audio work because there is so much good stuff to choose from.  So it's down to whatever floats yer boat really.
 
No so bad are those that try stuff and don't fall in love with it for various reasons, it's those that put stuff down that they have no knowledge of or have even tried are the ones that baffle me just by the fact that they exist.

Jonbouy I think Reason is an excellent program. I have it and find it very good to use too. I use the synth rack most of the time and have it running on a separate computer and just talk to it from my main machine running Studio One. Some of those instruments are killer.

I also have FL Studio and that is very cool in its own way too.  
 
Some of my students are very very good with Ableton and do all the tracking and everything using effects etc and are recording live bands and the end result sounds excellent. That is one program I did not think was well suited to doing a lot of (normal) production if you like but yet it can be done in the hands of the right people. 

Same with FL Studio. You can track a normal band and mix it just the same as you can in any program. Although I don't think it is set up primarily for that task though. I think its strong points are in other areas such as its pattern based way of working.

Jeff Evans


Rain it is very possible to set Studio One to automatically arm tracks that you land on. You do not have to manually arm tracks at all. As for getting around the GUI I have been using a Kensington Track ball along with the mouse and it is quite interesting actually. Also if you set up your key commands correctly navigating around Studio One is just as fast as Logic. I have never had any pain. I can navigate around S1 at supersonic speeds without any issues.

That is the problem with switching programs. You will never really give the others a real test because you won't be using key commands in the other DAW's to their max advantage.

New Studio One features also include freezing multiple outputs of VST's all at once now and tracks can be set to record the outputs of any buss now which is also very cool.

I still find midi timing is superior to other DAW's and is NOT effected by how hard the audio side of the program is working. Also you can switch midi tracks on the fly (while looping) and record any data on tracks you land on. Something not all DAW's can do either (including Sonar) I agree the midi effects side of S1 could be a bit better but then again I have never needed it either. It has all the midi editing and features you actually ever need. If you can play a keyboard then it makes it all easier. Comping is brilliant too. Tempo changes and key transposing is fast and easy in this program too. 

The learning curve is actually fast and easy which goes to show how well written and designed it is. I find when I go back to Sonar it is clunky and hard. But it also depends how much time any of us spend in any DAW. There are plenty of Sonar and other DAW users out there who can navigate around in any program fast and easily. I have seen some pretty amazing PT users operate as well so it does depend how well one knows any program. It is basically about what you know. (Seth and Brandon for example are amazing Sonar users)

People make unfair and incorrect statements about other DAW's but in most cases it is usually because they still do not know it fully. For example Rain I am sure I know Studio One better than you because I have used it everyday for the last two years something you have not done. You will not reach that level of proficiency until you do the same. Using it here and there is not the same thing. And likewise with Logic I see you as a very experienced Logic user whereas I don't use it that much. 

Hi Jeff,


I'll have to check that out - it is a huge time saver for me. Particularly considering that fact that often I may be using independent levels for recording and playback. In this scenario, not having to arm the track means that I have proper monitoring level to record and proper playback level for, uh well, playback. (Admitting that I did my homework before I started recording).


One thing I can tell you that I prefer in S1 is the way you access input channels. Even though you can set them up and save them as part of your template in Logic, the way S1 handles them is way simpler. 


And while we have an expert in the house... Another time saver for me. In logic, if I'm not happy w/ a take, I hit backspace and that take is deleted from the HD (more precisely, moved to the bin if I confirm I want it to be deleted). 99% of the time, that's the desired behavior for me. 


Alternatively, I might prefer to not permanently delete it, thus keeping it in the pool. Which I might want if I make an "interesting mistake" - thus keeping the recording for future reference. In this case, cmd-z or just refusing permanent deletion will work.


I haven't found a way to do that in S1 - everything seems to pile up in the pool until I manually delete it.

Is there an option to do the same thing in S1?

That's one of the good things about you Jeff you are one of those that will talk ONLY from your own experience.

Hi Rain. Well I will look into it for sure and get back to you. I tend to record and keep everything in the pool and just use what I need in the arrangement. It is usually because I am a bit unsure if I am going to keep a take or not. 

Ctrl Z seems to delete a recording just after you have made it though but I have noticed it remains in the pool. TBH I have never really noticed too much what is going on in the pool. I think the concept behind this is that keeping everything is probably not a bad idea. They do number each subsequent recording well so it is easy to see which ones you want and which you may not want. It is not hard to delete things from the pool either from the arrangement or the drive.

There are some new features in 2.5 to do with all this and I have not had time yet to get into all that but I will and let you know once I do some more detailed research.

PS I have tried to even make a macro to delete a file in the pool after recording and they wont allow it. I can see they are wanting you to keep everything you record which is actually the right thing to do. You need to go into the Pool itself I think and permanently delete unwanted stuff.